If you are a person that can forgive you may never make a distinction or draw lines.
Forgiveness is for the victim to give not the violator to earn. I don’t happen to believe that every act deserves forgiveness, but I’m not the one that needs to forgive.
For those who think the rapist made whole series of (brutal, cruel, evil, illegal) decisions that night, the description of his behavior as “an accident” is too exculpatory.
@carolinamom2boys I feel a whole lot better about this case than I did 4 months ago. It was so disappointing when that decision initially came down. But if you look at all that has transpired since, I think it is clear that the spotlight is now shining on how sexual assault cases are being adjudicated. That can only be a good thing.
I was greatly encouraged (perhaps even a little surprised) by the near unanimous condemnation of the sentence. Not sure that would have happened 10 or 15 years ago. AB 2888 passed the State Assembly unanimously 66-0 last Monday and no matter where you stand on minimum sentencing, that is a resounding statement about where California lawmakers stand on confronting the problem. I think we will see at least one more bill introduced that will help as well. The U.S. Swimming Association also issued statements being quite clear where they stood on the matter and the Vice President issued a letter of support to the victim. Members of Congress addressed the case as well, all in support of the victim.
I am beginning to see a silver lining.
I agree @HarvestMoon1 that there has been some much needed changes since the sentencing . I am more hopeful that things are beginning to change . That said, Turner did nothing to bring about those changes. And unfortunately there are still quite a few out there who will continue to minimize his actions , and view his as a victim of the system . I hope this is just the beginning , time will tell.
“For those who think the rapist made whole series of (brutal, cruel, evil, illegal) decisions that night, the description of his behavior as “an accident” is too exculpatory.”
Well, it’s a good thing no one here described his behavior as “an accident.” I used the words “horrible mistake” in my post and somehow that got twisted through the magic of CC interpretation to accident.
^not sure that’s a big difference. “Mistake” is like, “I added two plus two and got five.” Choosing to hurt someone is only a mistake in that one gets caught and might pay a price when one didn’t expect to. The effect on the victim is not the result of a “mistake”, since the result was what was intended by the perpetrator.
I have not read every single post, sorry…but if you haven’t seen this article about this being a teachable moment…I think it is worth reading:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/02/health/brock-turner-stanford-swimmer-reaction/index.html
@soozievt:
Thank you for posting that link, it goes along with what I think (among other things, that Brock Turner’s dad’s attitude about what happened is a pretty strong indicator to me the way he feels about having sex with someone who is out of it, ie it is no big deal…someday I would love to see an in depth article on this case and see what it says about the family as well…).
And when the guy quoted in the article talks about class and race, what he is basically saying IMO is that if a kid from a well off background, with an seemingly solid background, was exmplary in some way (an athlete in this case), who seemed to have that all American bright future does something horrible, it is a ‘mistake’, while if a kid from the wrong side of the tracks with a single mother, who has had some minor scrapes with the law, did something like this people would be yelling to lock him up, that he is trash, is a threat to society, etc. The inequities in our legal system only further highlight why people are outraged with what happened to Turner and I don’t blame them, they are right, if you have the ‘right’ background the automatic assumption is often that if you did something, it was a blip on the life of an obviously “brilliant” person who will do much, while if you are from another one, forget it.
Someone else posted a link in another thread about the PTA mom case and the reported quoted a law enforcement person as saying that if the woman (victim) had this happen in another place, she likely would have ended up in jail, especially given that the accused framers were what most people would consider ‘solid citizens’ and the accused was just ‘ordinary’, the cops and the DA would have taken this ‘slam dunk case’ and rode it as presented, the PTA mom who was a druggie (or worse, dealer). One of the tenets that they preach about society is respect for the rule of the law, but cases like the Turner case cement the idea that there are two types of justice out there, one if you are a ‘valued member of society’ and one if you are not, and that is dangerous IMO. If you want to see a microcosm of this outside the legal system, take a look at the NFL’s handling of sexual assault and domestic violence, one guy (Ray Rice) pretty much lost his career to what happened (and I am not saying that was unjust), the kicker on the Giants is accused of pretty severe domestic abuse, and he got a one game suspension (and no, I am not claiming it is racial in this case, Greg Hardy was allowed to play with minimal penalties for what he did, which were much worse than ray rice, both happen to be black).
Well he should be released any time now. I disapprove, but that’s just my opinion. The fact that he is getting plastered all over the news again with a lot of bad press is fine by me.
@jym626 :
Yep, the court of public opinion can be a mighty kind of thing of its own, it is often abused, but in this case I don’t think so.
Just one person’s opinion I know, but I see “horrible mistake” as something like…a guy driving in his car gets a text message, looks down at it for a moment, and looks up too late to avoiding hitting a man walking in a crosswalk. Negligent, yes, but no intent whatsoever to do harm. Most likely horror, remorse, and guilt for the ensuing damage caused to the victim.
A guy walking with a clearly intoxicated female who proceeds to go unconscious, and rather than calling out for help for this likely medical emergency, decides to instead sexually assault her. I just can’t see that as a “terrible mistake,” but rather as a sinister, willful violation of an unconscious human body-taking full advantage of the sudden vulnerable state (yes, self inflicted most likely) rather than instinctively calling for help, like most humans with a conscience would do.
There’s been some discussion on some news sites about whether Brock Turner’s conviction in California would affect him regarding Ohio’s “sentencing enhancements” for drug and violent offenders should he reoffend by committing more serious crimes…especially violent felonies like rape.
Would he be given harsher sentences in Ohio for such reoffending? Especially interested to hear from attorneys who practice in Ohio.
@Ohiodad51 may be able to answer that. I could take a look but I am definitely not an Ohio criminal attorney.
To me, a mistake can be a deliberate action, and is not the same thing as an accident.
I think of my divorced friends. I doubt any of them would say they got married by accident, but they sure would say they made a mistake.
^True, but if the got divorced bacause one of them was battering another (and I truly assume not the case!) then the mistake would be on the side of the abused one, but the actions of the abuser themselves should not be called a 'mistake." That’s the difference.
So in Brock’s case–his actions toward the victim were deliberately what he meant them to be (assault of an unconscious woman)–so not a “mistake”, but the fact that his life got a little inconvenienced, that’s where, for him, he made a “mistake”. I think that difference is crucial to acknowledge.
A deliberate crime can be a mistake. It’s a wrong choice, an error of judgment. People trying heroin for the first time are doing it on purpose, and they’re making a mistake. Brock had options and picked a bad one. That was a mistake, even if he hadn’t been caught.
Based on all the stories and indirect messages conveyed by other athletes, he was a predator. Getting caught was the big mistake he made.
We seem to have different definitions of that word. So be it.