<p>Sorry but I don’t really wish to argue. I’ll just say general opinion.
I can tell that you don’t really like people to disagree with you. I’ll just say you are right on everything just to make you feel good.</p>
<p>Personally, IF finances weren’t an issue or the tuition worked out to be the same at both schools, I would choose Stanford for humanities and social sciences, but definitely Berkeley for the sciences and engineering. </p>
<p>If attending Berkeley was significantly cheaper, I’d opt for Berkeley hands down.</p>
<p>There is an upward trend in America. That is tuitions for public universities are becoming more and more expensive, almost equivalent to those of private ones. Last year, people applying for private universities jump like mad.</p>
<p>I would say public universities are cheaper, but not by much.</p>
<p>Piannoyny:</p>
<p>“I can tell that you don’t really like people to disagree with you.”</p>
<p>Oh no, I’m fine with it. Obviously, you don’t like it, because you’re abstaining from further discussion.</p>
<p>“I’ll just say you are right on everything just to make you feel good.”</p>
<p>So basically, you can’t back any of your claims up with a source, but you’ll still assert your opinion? Good job.</p>
<p>Really, as soon as you find a truly weak department at Berkeley, PM me. I’d really like to know.</p>
<p>iAppler:</p>
<p>“tuitions for public universities are becoming more and more expensive, almost equivalent to those of private ones”</p>
<p>Well, no, because as public tuition goes up, private tuition goes up. So no matter what, public tuition is going to be significantly less than private.</p>
<p>“I would say public universities are cheaper, but not by much.”</p>
<p>Er, Stanford costs $45-50k/year (as do most top privates). Berkeley (top public) costs ~$25k/year. That’s a 20-25k difference – that’s “not by much”? Granted, financial aid might be different, but you get the point.</p>
<p>UC schools (assuming in state) are slightly under half the price of privates and state schools are significantly cheaper</p>
<p>I am not a berkeley student … but from what I have heard people at Berkeley often say they feel like a “number”. There isn’t enough attention given to the individual… which is understandable given the size of the school. However since we can ALL agree that Berkeley and Stanford are on equal academic footing when it comes to almost any program … it comes down to other factors when choosing between the two.
You will certainly get a more one-to-one at Stanford. there are fewer students so it’s easier to get time with professors and get involved in research etc.
And I can vouch for the fact that Stanford cares about YOU. I have personally heard of numerous instances where a student has missed a test or fallen behind due to personal circumstances and through either their peer mentors or HPACs or through the office of undergrad affairs been able to make it up. Furthermore each dorm has a resident Professor that lives next to the dorm and is there for any kind of help a student might need. We eat breakfast with him and basically can ask him anything we need. He has helped alot of students recover in instances where it was an honest mistake but they didn’t really have an “official” excuse… obviously he is a professor so he has a little more weight than a student… and he helps us when we honestly need help.The student to faculty connection is very close, we even threw our RF into the shower on his birthday (it’s a dorm tradition).</p>
<p>kyledavid80: I think the 45k to 50k is for international students, and as an international student, I actually calculated that I’m actually going to pay for the same amount of money for both Berkeley and Stanford. I personally do not care how much Americans are paying… considering the fact that I am an international student…</p>
<p>I believe Piannoyny does not wish to argue any longer because you’ll argue until your death to gain some glory for Berkeley.</p>
<p>All in all, Berkeley cannot pay as much attention to individuals as Stanford, since Berkeley has 3.2x more students than Stanford.</p>
<p>I think the decision date is over, so I will not post on this thread anymore.</p>
<p>To the original author, I wish you the best.</p>
<p>“I think the 45k to 50k is for international students”</p>
<p>What? No… It’s 45-50k for anyone.</p>
<p><a href=“http://apps.collegeboard.com/search/CollegeDetail.jsp?collegeId=3387&profileId=2[/url]”>http://apps.collegeboard.com/search/CollegeDetail.jsp?collegeId=3387&profileId=2</a></p>
<p>“I believe Piannoyny does not wish to argue any longer because you’ll argue until your death to gain some glory for Berkeley.”</p>
<p>There’s no need to be rude. And no, I’m simply refuting the misconception that Berkeley’s programs are inferior to Stanford’s.</p>
<p>“All in all, Berkeley cannot pay as much attention to individuals as Stanford, since Berkeley has 3.2x more students than Stanford.”</p>
<p>You really haven’t researched Berkeley at all, have you? How could you contemplate going there if you don’t even know anything about it? Berkeley is about twice the size as Stanford, not 3.2x. And you’d be surprised how much attention you can get at Berkeley – with over 2,000 professors and tons of GSI’s, classes are a lot smaller than people think (except for maybe intro courses and the like).</p>
<p>60% classes at Berkeley have fewer than 20 people; 15% have over 50. These proportions are comparable to Stanford, Harvard, MIT, etc.</p>
<p>If it means anything, I like Stanford and Berkeley equally.</p>
<p>Well if it means anything I like Stanford better, but it really depends on the type of person. At Berkeley and Stanford there are similar opportunities, but Stanford is much smaller, therefore the resources are more accessible. However, if you want to, you can take advantage of the opportunities at Berkeley as well. I just feel like it is easier to achieve what you want at Stanford because there is more individual attention. But there are people who thrive in the classroom as an anonymous member of a lecture.</p>
<p>It’s really an argument of to each his own, but one thing that really turns me off to Berkeley is having to go in with an intended major. I don’t know how hard it is to change (haven’t don’t any research on it), but having the ability to wait 2 years before declaring a major at Stanford, I feel is a luxury. While I feel like I may want to pursue Computer Science right now, I know that I can easily change to Art History if I find that I am more passionate about that.</p>
<p>I think stanford is a great school and I think that many of the points people have made about feeling like a number at Berkeley are true. That said, I don’t think one school is better than the other. It really depends on what you’re looking for and how much money you want to spend. Plus schools have pros and cons. As a side not, I once had a class where a stanford professor came in as a guest speaker. After the class he said what a treat it was to have students argue with him and not take his word as gospel. He insinuated that his students at stanford were not as curious and out spoken as students at Cal. I’m sure that this is not true across the board, but I do think it speaks to the type of student that each school produces.</p>
<p>“It’s really an argument of to each his own, but one thing that really turns me off to Berkeley is having to go in with an intended major.”</p>
<p>Well, no, you actually don’t have to go in declaring your major. Certain colleges, like engineering, you can be admitted directly into. But Berkeley is a UC, not a CSU, so you don’t have to declare your major upon admission. You say you want to pursue comp sci, and that you might change your major to art history. From the college of L&S:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p><a href=“http://ls-major.berkeley.edu/declare.html[/url]”>http://ls-major.berkeley.edu/declare.html</a></p>
<p>On the disadvantages of double majoring:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p><a href=“http://ls-advise.berkeley.edu/faq/double.html[/url]”>http://ls-advise.berkeley.edu/faq/double.html</a></p>
<p>As such, you can see that 1) you have 2 years to declare your major, 2) you can switch majors (and yours would be pretty easy), and 3) Berkeley stresses academic exploration before deciding on your major. And it’s not as though Berkeley’s weak in either of those majors – it’s usually ranked the same as Stanford in comp sci, and the NRC ranking of art history goes:</p>
<p>3 Cal Berkeley 4.67
…
14 Stanford 3.49</p>
<p>'Course, that’s a grad school ranking, but you see the quality.</p>
<p>I know you probably still aren’t fond of Berkeley; I’m simply clarifying a few misconceptions about it relative to Stanford. =)</p>
<p>Well the FACT still stands that you cannot easily switch majors between different colleges in Berekely
You CANNOT simply go in being a Bio major and then switch to Civil Engineering it just does not work that… You can’t apply being English and then just decide one day you want to do Computer Science.
Granted that is a bit drastic, but lots of people change heart from Math or Physics to an engineering. At berkeley you have to re-apply to get into the school of engineering… and the compeition is fierce.</p>
<p>Furthermore here is one more reason to go to Stanford:
You can take ANY class you want, there is none of this quota system or ranking classes… you basically log on and sign up. (It’s different for seminars of 15 people or less but for most classes thats how it works). At berkeley there is a bunch of hassle simply trying to get into the classes since so many people want to take the same class.</p>
<p>not saying Stanford is right for everyone … but I thoroughly researched Berkeley before applying and this is what I found.</p>
<p>“Well the FACT still stands that you cannot easily switch majors between different colleges in Berekely”</p>
<p>Er, no. It really depends on what your switching to. Comp sci to art history would be easy.</p>
<p>“You CANNOT simply go in being a Bio major and then switch to Civil Engineering it just does not work that”</p>
<p>You can. It selection is more rigorous, yeah, but you can do it.</p>
<p>“At berkeley there is a bunch of hassle simply trying to get into the classes since so many people want to take the same class.”</p>
<p>Again, it depends on the class. Some of the lower division classes (pre-reqs, etc.) will fill up faster. Have you ever browsed the course selection pages at Berkeley? You’d see than in many cases, there are many, many spots open. In tons of cases, you’d see that the cap for a class is at 25 people, and there may only be 16 people signed up and nobody else seems to be signed up. Happens a lot. Again, while Berkeley has more students, it also has more professors (over 2,000) and GSI’s. 60% classes at Berkeley have fewer than 20; only 15% have over 50. These numbers are very similar to Stanford’s, and show that it’s not as difficult to get into classes as many seem to think. Sure, in some cases, you’ll run into some problems, but you make it sound as though it occurs on every level. It doesn’t.</p>
<p>“but I thoroughly researched Berkeley before applying and this is what I found”</p>
<p>You obviously didn’t do as much accurate research as you might think. Visit <a href=“http://ucberkeley.livejournal.com%5B/url%5D”>http://ucberkeley.livejournal.com</a> and browse the entries – you’d see it all from many current students’ perspectives.</p>
<p>“Sure, in some cases, you’ll run into some problems, but you make it sound as though it occurs on every level. It doesn’t.”</p>
<p>Sorry KyleD, I’ll have to disagree with the point you’re trying to make. It doesn’t happen at every level, but it happens enough times to enough people to be a definite drag. One of my biggest dissatisfactions with Berkeley is the fact that I have to stress over waitlists. It only takes one or two waitlist problems to screw up your schedule or your academic aspirations for the next 5 months. I would kill to get the privilege that Salik described. Not literally…but you get the point. From all I’ve heard and read, Stanford has a clear advantage in terms of class availability.</p>
<p>No one is arguing that switching
from Comp Sci to Art History is hard.
What I am saying is that at Berkeley while it is certianly POSSIBLE to switch from a low impact major to an engineering or other high-impact major, it is not GUARANTEED… You need to apply and it is very competitive.
Even you agree:
“You can. It selection is more rigorous, yeah, but you can do it.”
duh.</p>
<p>If you want to switch majors at Stanford you just take the classes and do it. There is no application process or selection process.</p>
<p>Secondly I never said that ALL classes at Berkeley fill up fast… but the fact is it DOES happen… people aren’t able to take certain lower division classes that they want… I know this I have friends who couldn’t get into a class they wanted to take.
This NEVER happens at Stanford.</p>
<p>I visited the website … I really don’t care about the specifics of Berkeleys system… All I know is that people sometimes don’t get the class they want at Berkeley, and people at Stanford always do.</p>
<p>Berkeley has served as the nation’s brain, heart, and pulse; its intellect, passion, and conscience. Berkeley is a university that is beloved by the people and recognized as one of the world’s great universities.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>and so does Stanford, all ivies plus MIT, caltech, plus UCLA, UCSD, UVA, UW, Umich, etc etc. What’s your point?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I may give some credit to Stanford and the likes, for the brain (intellect) part, but never the pulse (conscience).</p>
<p>The following is for your further reading.</p>
<p>The Free Speech Movement (FSM) was a student protest which began in the 1964-1965 school year on the campus of the University of California, Berkeley under the informal leadership of students Mario Savio, David Goines, Bettina Apetheker, Suzzane Goldberg, and others. In protests unprecedented at the time, students insisted that the university administration lift a ban on on-campus political activities and acknowledge the students’ right to free speech and academic freedom.</p>
<p>Just walk into the Boalt Hall, close your eyes and feel …</p>
<p>thats just silly. berkeley’s reputation is as much silly as it is about the country’s moral “compass”. for instance, my dad went to cal, and got himself involved in a very rowdy, drunken, and probably very high, protest of ronald reagan’s…, even if dissappoinitng, decidedly legitimate election, at berkeley.</p>
<p>in addition to the FSM, berkeley is also home to the country’s first academic weapons lab, Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory.</p>
<p>now certainly, stanford and MIT have their own shady DoD relationships, but I would hardly call berkeley the nation’s “conscience”</p>
<p>I walked into Boalt Hall and all I felt was a draft.</p>
<p>What am I missing? 
</p>