For the BM portion of her aspirations, her audition will be the key ingredient at every place she applies that requires an audition. There is no predicting the strength of the applicant pool this year…so really, it’s impossible to say if a school is a “safety” for that degree program acceptance.
For the BA in psychology, your daughter’s academics are fine for most of the colleges on your list (the reaches have already been mentioned…like UNC CH).
As long as you are OK with funding likely at least an additional semester, if not an additional year, many of these schools will work. But you do need to find out how accommodating the conservatories within universities are for these double degree aspirants, and if the scheduling will actually work.
Remember BM students will be taking a few one credit courses that actually meet a LOT more than once a week (ensembles, chamber groups, private lessons). These take up a huge amount of time in the student schedule.
One of my kids has a BM in performance. There were some terms when he barely had the time for the core courses his university required. He attended a conservatory program within a larger university. It was not easy to double major at this college.
I guess I have to ask…why both of these degrees? Does your student want to be a vocal performer? Or does she want to sing in some ensembles and take lessons…or what?
She wants to be a vocal performer… And she wants to do some very specific work in social psychology. I have no idea how she would manage to combine them, but so far she says both are part of her whole self.
I also have no idea how she is going to combine both grad schools in the future, but I guess she’d cross that bridge when she gets there. I would think, sequentially.
Agree….Mine is Jazz at UNT….and while not academically challenging his music courses are RIGOROUS….and 16-17 credits means 7-8 classes….some of his 2 credit clourses are 4+ hours a week PLUS add’l practice and touring….he has been to CA twice this semester for 5 days.
Our understanding at this point is that dual degree students, especially in voice, would spend the first two years exclusively in their music program. Yet, especially for voice, their four language classes do give them a big overlap for non-tech second degree/major (e.g. Psych). Or, satisfy four classes for general ed requirements, depending on the school.
Also, unlike other instruments, one just can’t sing all day long, which means fewer ensembles and chamber groups.
It has great music education, is in fun city (Long Beach!), and is comparatively affordable compared to UCs and private colleges. It has an actual conservatory education.
Because while you are now saying it’s about fit, your comments earlier about academics not good enough came off as - rank focused.
Miami admits 18% and considered a top tier school.
While 52% submit, it’s got a 1340/1450 SAT spread and 30-33 ACT spread. 58% are in the top 10% of the class and 83% in the top quarter. And the Frost School is renowned for music.
Penn State admits well over half. It’s SAT range is 1250 to 1410 and ACT 27-32. A much lower percent - 36% - submit. 37% are in the top 10% and 72% in the top quarter.
They are simply not peers. Miami is Emory light. More in line with Tulane, Rochester but yes because it’s big money, they will party but maybe not as good as Penn State, but flashier.
You now have said it’s not rank but program. So that’s ok. Your comments made it seem like you were looking at reputation rank.if she’s really researched programs and found the best fit her, then that’s great. That said, there will be many a kid at PSU that got into Miami and vice versa.
I’ll say this - Miami RD is a reach. So PSU in many ways would make more sense for your beyond reach list.
Here’s a link to top PhD feeders. Use the right side for per capita. I think you’d be surprised at the names.
A rank is too sell you, not for the real world.
You mentioned General Ed - some schools have less structure than others which may help. Rochester may be that for you.
Every BM student I’ve ever heard of is required to be in an ensemble every term. And your voice student will need voice lessons and practice too. And very possibly a recital, although maybe not every term. This all takes a lot of time.
I’m not sure how she would combine these either. It is a LOT of work to become a successful vocal performer. It can also require a good amount of travel for work. And learning repertoire takes time.
I am not meaning to try to squash her dreams, but my kid works very very hard at his performing. Yes, he has a couple of part time jobs in addition to playing his instrument, but he would not be able to have a job with firm time commitments. His jobs are remote, and can be done just about any time.
December is an extremely busy month for him…lots of performances, plus his other work.
Has she considered Lawrence? Lawrence, Oberlin and Bard are mentioned most often for double degrees. Yes, small, but probably different from high school. People seem to love all three.
I mentioned Clark because it is good for psychology and has an interesting music curriculum but yeah, no voice program.
@thumper1 Voice majors are required to be in a chorus every term, too.
At this point, we can only let her drive, feel the bumps, and figure out for herself what she will do with her career(s).
@compmom She is applying to Oberlin, skipping Bard for academic reasons, and Lawrence is just so tiny… She is refusing to apply there for that reason.
@anotheroboemom Maybe will do that, and we’ll tour the CSULB if we get a chance.
I will also convey to my daughter the info about UMiami/Frost, St Olaf and Emory. And thank you, all!
Interesting that she is skipping Bard for intellectual reasons. The students I know who went there are quite intellectual, and at least one went on to PhD. It’s good for voice. Not far from NYC. Maybe that’s a negative for her!
When my performance major was applying to his undergrad programs, THE most important criteria was the applied private teacher. He only applied to seven colleges (combinations of conservatories within universities, and stand alone conservatories). But in every case, he knew exactly which private teacher he wanted to have. And in fact, one of his acceptances would not give this info out…and my kid scratched that excellent conservatory from consideration.
Does your singer have knowledge of the voice teachers at all of these colleges? And has she had any trial lessons anywhere? What input has she gotten from her current private voice teacher (we found ours were very helpful because they knew our kid, and were well connected in terms of faculty on his instrument).
So many moving parts for these BM performance students.
Yes, she had voice lessons with some/several. Still working on the rest (they don’t all respond). She knows this is the most important part, and she won’t commit until she is happy with the voice teacher. But thank you.
Are you thinking UNC/UT Austin are safeties OOS? They aren’t safe for almost anyone. Even IU/PSU/Uconn aren’t so easy anymore. (note, editing now I may have read your OP wrong!, sorry about that).
Ithaca has noted music programs, is very likely an academic safety, if need academic safety.
UNH, if really want state school (not sure performance options).
Not really sure of what Social Psychology is. For an undergrad, it probably is irrelevant.
But I looked up top schools and it just shows PhD but perhaps there is some overlap there. I imagine the BM is the harder part anyway - auditions, etc. so a top school like IU might not be a safety after all.
But for social psychology PhD, the top schools in one random ranking include:
U Mich
UMN #9 - has a BMUS with a voice focus
UWash - I noted earlier #14
Indiana #15
Iowa #26
Rutgers - mentioned earlier - #29
Voice, as we have learned, is more - is it the right teacher and it’s hard to know what type of voice. Most pop has a conservatory but on your list or list of nots, on college raptor, But one ranking of regular schools - using what you have - show or has been suggested - rank like this - but it’s the problem with rank, they’re all over and doesn’t mean you get “discovered” or can earn a living:
Miami
Washington
SMU - not mentioned - but well known in the arts and safe for her
Indiana
U Cincy - not mentioned but I know well known in the arts
Syracuse
Interestingly, U Mich isn’t listed at all. But directionals were. Reminds me of what was said yesterday about NC schools.
I think there are many fine names - and I hope through research you find a few more - that will meet her need.
I went to an ivy and despite not having performance majors I had someone who attended at same time that ended up being a professional, fairly high-level level, opera singer and another ended up a fairly high-level conductor. Neither thought that was their path. They ended up with lots of 1:1 coaching with professors and lots of coaching on grad school. I had a friend, not even a music major, who was a high level musician. They had a piece of music commissioned for their senior year for orchestra by the school, and their teacher came up weekly from another university to teach them (the university didn’t have someone on staff good enough for their instrument). Resources at these places are remarkable. (My friend considered conservatories, but knew that wasn’t their path, but wanted to keep playing “for fun” in college). Also have a friend who is a professional string player now.
Obviously, if you KNOW your path, it likely makes no sense to go to school w/o your major, but it is shocking how many ways to end up in a career there are.