Wow. That is really excellent.
So Robert E Lee great, great grandson (not sure how many times) is a minister and spoke at our Synagogue in Chicago about thishttps://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/06/07/robert-e-lee-is-my-ancestor-take-down-his-statue-let-his-cause-be-lost/
He said one day out of the blue he got a call from a lady who was black and wanted to meet in person and talk (might not be getting this 100%,but you will get the point). She was a descendant of a raped slave of Robert E.Lee. His talk was powerful. All he could do was listen and apologize. Think he said he has many of these conversations over the years.
https://www.timesfreepress.com/news/opinion/times/story/2020/jun/20/sohn-confederate-statues/525770/
I am sure that was a wonderful speech. Hopefully he led the campaign to remove such a statue, if any, in his hometown.
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He has been in the press, on TV etc to remove all /any statues of his great, great, grandfather. Think he also talked to congress and the like about it.
So, I at first liked the idea about keeping these in some museum or the like
Never really understanding what all this meant to someone who is African American. I just saw them as statues, honestly. Thank goodness to my kids who have educated me to no end. The current uprising is bringing this into focus. This seems to be more of a discussion with some action taking place. It’s a small first step but at least a step in the right direction.
Monuments to people who committed treason should be removed. Visual symbols of oppression should be removed. I don’t feel strongly about what should be done about people who did great things but also perpetuated horrible things. I tend to agree that a public process and conversation is better than none because I am a lawyer and all about process. And DIY statue removal doesn’t seem like a great thing but mostly because I am a mom and it just seems kinda unsafe.
But what I don’t believe is what the culture warriors want you to believe - which is that somehow it is antithetical to American values. Dissent is the deepest of all American values and there have always been times that dissent has been expressed in breaking laws and yes destroying property - see flag burning debates which were in vogue for a while. Somehow our republic survived some burning cloth.
To my mind instead of fretting about inanimate objects, our efforts are better spent on making sure everyone has access to health care during global pandemic, trying to stop the summary execution of people on the street because of the color of their skin, and helping the millions of people who are out of work.
Mobs that tear down statues are anti-democratic. If statues are offensive, they should be removed by the vote of the people either directly or through elected leaders.
The FDR memorial on the Mall is relatively new, yet it doesn’t even mention (AFAIK after a visit) the internment of Japanese-Americans during WWII. No due process. No civil rights. But I haven’t heard of any paint being splashed on his statue recently. Confederates aside, if we demand purity from those we memorialize, we won’t have any memorials.
And that is why those statues were still in places of honor throughout the South since the Jim Crow era and Mississippi had the Confederate flag embedded in its state flag until just this week. Just because the majority elects lawmakers doesn’t make lawmakers do the right thing.
It is about time that these statues are coming down. I agree with the many above posters who point out that the American Revolution was necessary because the citizenry was being oppressed and the government would not listen.
It is important that Americans understand their history.
@Knowsstuff I think I like your kids!
In a country where wealth can determine who’s in power, in which the rights of minorities are regularly trampled, "lawful " loses its meaning.
People from the upper middle class, especially if they are White and Christian, tend to see the law as something which protects them, and it has. This is because, historically, the White Christian Middle class has been the group which made the laws, and has considered themselves to be the actual core population of the USA. So the laws have not only protected this group from crime, but also protected their culture, their control of wealth, the legal system, and of the executive system.
Of 45 Presidents, only one has been non-White, only one has been non-Protestant, all have been men, and all have been Christian of one denomination or another. All vice presidents have been men and White, and only one has not been Protestant, and there have been no non-Christians.
There have been, over the history of the USA, 1,984 people who served in the Senate
Only 10 African Americans have ever served in the Senate
Only 10 Latinos have ever served in the Senate
There have been, over the history of the USA, 11,040 people who have served in the House of Representatives
Only 148 African American have served in the House of Representatives
Only 86 Latinos have served in the House of Representatives.
There have been 114 Supreme Court Justices
Only 2 Supreme Court Justices have been Black
Only 1 Supreme Court Justice has been Latino
African Americans have been 13%-15% of the population of the USA since the establishment of the country. The fact that 85% of them were slaves, and that this was legal, just supports my claim. Latinos have been, on average, about 3% of the population of the USA (increase from 0.7% in the late 19th century to 17% these days).
All of this imbalance, all of this discrimination, has been protected and enshrined in the law.
So how can somebody expect Blacks and Latinos to always abide by the law, despite the fact that they have had little to do with passing, enacting or interpreting those laws, and despite the fact that the legal system has been an active partner in the oppression on Blacks and Latinos (as well as women, other racial, ethnic, and religious minorities, LGBTQ people, etc). This is the law which protects the statues, and the law which they are breaking by tearing down those statues.
MWolf
Your post is masterful. Thank you for posting it here.
Minorities and women are most often the victims of lawlessness and suffer the most from it. Selectively choosing law-breaking, and the resultant consequences can be a strong moral statement, but be prepared for the results. Societies have laws to function-once everyone is on their own in deciding which ones they feel like following, it is a much rougher world.
Agree. Your posts on this thread are giving me better understanding.
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Ignorant vandals have struck again. This time a statue of Frederick Douglass in Rochester, NY. There is no real ‘agenda’ with statues. The agenda is mayhem and destruction.
Are those taking down statues then going to move on to the National Portrait gallery, to the statues in the Capitol, to the White house?
I want MWolf to do the statistics for women in the senate and on the supreme court. I want all the statues of the womanizers pulled down too. Looking at you JFK and LBJ.
MLK too. The slippery slope is getting icy. If those who don’t like representations of Washington, Jackson or Grant are offended by their portraits on money, will they start burning that too?
Andrew Jackson was supposed to have been replaced on the front of the $20 Federal Reserve Note by Harriet Tubman by this year (according to announcements made in 2016), but that has been delayed for some reason.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/22/harriet-tubman-20-bill-no-longer-coming-in-2020.html
Andrew Jackson seemed like an odd choice to put on a very common denomination of Federal Reserve Notes, given his opposition to the central bank of the time (Bank of the United States).