<p>You and I both know that many college athletes would not be admitted to the school for which they play. That is true not only for Alabama, but for GA Tech, Clemson, Notre Dame, UGA, UNC, Cal, USC, etc. Alabama, like other Southern states, has a higher percentage of African Americans, whose academic achievement and test scores are already signficantly lower than that for both non athlete and athlete white students. </p>
<p>Many of the African American athletes, in particular, come from very poor, single parent families, without much exposure to intellectual achievement. Would you be in favor of the Southern schools preventing these disadvantaged young men and women from being admitted into programs like the University of Alabama? If you are, then you must also admit that many would then accuse UA and other Southern schools of racism, and bemoan the lack of diversity at these schools. </p>
<p>The truth is that these young men and women are getting a chance to receive a good education from top notch public universities. Personally, I would like them to raise the standards just enough to encourage greater academic achievement among all future college athletes, but you should be honest enough to realize the huge outcry that would occur if schools like UA actually did refuse to accept the high school athletes who would not otherwise be admitted. You can’t have it both ways.</p>
<p>Actually, UA’s APR is not bad. It is better than its rival Auburn. Notre Dame does have a very admirable APR, however, Notre Dame is located in a region with advantaged socioeconomics and demographics, so please put your judgements into perspective. Do you really want UA and other Southern schools to deny admission to high school athletes, most of whom would be poor African American young men, who will be less likely to graduate? UA has one of the nation’s best athlete academic centers. However, it is ultimately up to the athlete to graduate. And some, such as Andre Smith, were good students, but left early to play in the NFL. Our QB, Greg McElroy, is a Rhodes Scholar, with a perfect academic record.</p>
<p>There is no intent of racism or otherwise. Alabama has chosen to pay a coach an exhorbitant amount of money (that information is public, whether other schools pay as much is not necessarily public information). It would seem to me that the school should be equally concerned about the academics and graduation levels of its athletes among others. There is no reason to insinuate that I am a BAMA hater; I was merely pointing to facts and academics as they currently exist. I would hope that for the amount of money being paid to this coach that Alabama will continue to improve in its academic arena.</p>
<p>“His history suggests not only that he could leave Alabama at any time, but that he could very well end up coaching one of its rivals.”</p>
<p>Yep… as an LSU fan I can testify that he can not only do this, but has no qualms about lying to his players about it up until the plane leaves.</p>
<p>"A man with integrity would have said, ‘Listen, I appreciate the sentiment, but I’m a man, not a god, and I’d prefer if you’d wait until later in my career, if not after I’m retired, to do this. Rather than deify me, let’s keep the focus on the kids.’</p>
<p>^^ Sorry, LSU fan, but it’s really just business. I have 2 words for you on this subject. LANE KIFFIN.</p>
<p>Alabama’s academics have nothing to do with the graduation rate or academic status of the athletes. Same with Texas, Duke, Virginia or anywhere else.</p>
<p>This is bringing back the news story of the UConn basketball coach’s response to the media on how he can command such a high salary when the state was in economic distress. He pointed out that his basketball team earned the school millions of dollars by telecasts of their Big East basketball games. This stuck with me because my son was applying to a Big East basketball school, not because he likes basketball, but because of a particular academic program they offered. I was more than a bit annoyed when I watched that school play its Big East basketball games on ESPN, knowing how much they earn from those telecasts, only to have them offer my son, a NMF, a less than half tuition scholarship, expecting us to take out a 30K/year loan for him to attend. </p>
<p>On the other hand, Bama has treated him like royalty. He was accepted into their competitive computer based honors program, will receive full tuition, housing, a laptop, study abroad money, and an engineering scholarship that will cover most of his meal plan.</p>
<p>It is not surprising that Bama has the endowments that it does to offer these opportunities to smart, non athlete kids. If a school treats you well, you’re more likely to give back to them. My son has often said that when he becomes successful, he will not donate a dime to the schools that have snubbed him while he was there, but will give generously to the schools that have nurtured him.</p>
<p>Perhaps Bama is erecting a statue to Coach Saban because they want him to know now that they appreciate him and how much he’s done for the school.</p>
<p>It would seem to me that the school should be equally concerned about the academics and graduation levels of its athletes among others.</p>
<p>You obviously do not know what you’re talking about. Bama currently has a good graduation rate among its football players, and it spends a lot of money and time towards making sure its athletes have what they need to academically succeed. Nick Saban has made that a top priority for his players. </p>
<p>*
Bryant Academic Center
Formally re-dedicated on April 22, 2005, The Bryant Academic Center serves not only as a functioning full-service academic facility but also as the home for the staff of the Center for Athletic Student Services (CASS) and the Champs’ Lifeskills program. It was the crown jewel in the Alabama athletic department’s Crimson Tradition Fund facility enhancement campaign, completed at a cost of $10.3 million.</p>
<p>Building Features
Bryant Hall boasts a 48-seat computer lab and student-athletes also have 25 laptop computers available for checkout and use on team road trips. The building features Math, English and writing labs along with 40 individual study rooms. A pair of 50-seat classrooms and a 140-seat lecture hall are also available. *</p>
<p>Currently, the graduation rate among football players is about 80%. That is a very strong rate. It actually is a bit higher if you include those who leave for the pros, but then finish their degrees later. </p>
<p>That link you provided appears to have old data…from before Nick was even on campus…so, if that is so, your point about spending money on his salary and spending money on academics has NOTHING to do with the link you provided since that data is from before his salary was an issue. </p>
<p>However, none of this has to do anything since you seem to be holding Bama to a higher standard than other schools with good football teams.</p>
<p>Re post #43 in support of ‘poor African-American young men’ from poor single parent families. Hey thanks, that’s mighty-white of you. Just what we need, more stereotyping on why we need different standards for those poor unmotivated [execept for sports] black students.</p>
<p>Look, the issue of academics was brought up–I looked for the most recent data. A coach is being paid an exhorbitant amount of money–I would hope that maybe the current year’s data will show some improvement, esp since you say that this is Coach Saban’s number 1 priority. Let’s see how much the rates rise.</p>
<p>And, by the way, I do feel that I know what I am talking about–but, I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinions.</p>
<p>You’re only entitled to your opinion if your kid applied to and chose to attend the University of Alabama. Otherwise, it’s all spite and defensiveness and boy-aren’t-you-stupid-for-going-to-that-other-school-here-are-some-random-stats-to-prove-how-dumb-you-are.</p>
<p>Actually kid did not apply, but was courted heavily. And being a resident of the state and inundated with Alabama football all the time not to mention the property taxes paid to help subsidize a public state university, I kind of feel like I do have an opinion. But, I guess others seem to think that some censorship must be needed.</p>
<p>You’re only entitled to your opinion if your kid applied to and chose to attend the University of Alabama. Otherwise, it’s all spite and defensiveness and boy-aren’t-you-stupid-for-going-to-that-other-school-here-are-some-random-stats-to-prove-how-dumb-you-are.</p>
<p>That’s ridiculous. </p>
<p>You’re the one who started the thread about something that most people would have no idea about and therefore would not be making a college decision that included that consideration.</p>
<p>Then you wanted to justify your concern by claiming that others may have a lesser perception about the school. That’s so funny coming from someone whose child will be going to a school that certainly does not have a higher perception. I didn’t say that you were stupid for choosing Ole Miss; I said that those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.</p>
<p>Where would I get the impression that you’re defensive and spiteful?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>And I, not just unnamed “others”, am indeed under the impression that Alabama over-emphasizes football, as I said early on:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>So I opened a discussion to talk about that. Do I need to apologize? Maybe I’ll find out that Ole Miss has the same problem. Does that make this discussion moot?</p>
<p>Perhaps what you’re trying to say is that many colleges emphasize football just as much, or as little, as the University of Alabama, and that people should be careful to divorce their perception of a schools academics from their perception of its athletics. Then explain that you are very happy with the education your kids are getting there. That would be a constructive way of addressing the topic, and likely to win more converts than your current approach.</p>
<p>I never said that I wasn’t defensive. Of course I’m defending a school against some ridiculous posts.</p>
<p>As for spiteful, I haven’t been polite. It’s expecting too much for me to have to be polite when that standard has not been asked of the others who posted here with some of the most ridiculous statements often posited as facts (not opinions).</p>
<p>For instance, you included part of my quote of</p>
<p>Why not find out the facts before you post something like that. Hard time finding any takers??? LOL The rest of my quote which you conveniently left out was: *Bama had over 12,000 applicants this year that qualified for those scholarships. Last fall, Bama moved to Top 10 for NMFs that go to a public U. Bama’s frosh class this year had nearly 500 freshman who took the Presidential scholarship alone (which requires a high SAT/ACT/GPA). *
You did include another part of my quote in response … *
Do you just write stuff just hoping that it <em>might</em> be true because you so, so, badly want it to be true?
*</p>
<p>Do you really think that response is inappropriate considering the context of what it was replying to? I was replying to the following statement by PizzaGirl:</p>
<p>Well, then, Alabama shouldn’t complain when they try to raise their academic profile in the rest of the country (by offering significant scholarships and the like) and they have a hard time finding takers.</p>
<p>Obviously, Pizzagirl’s post is not put forth as an opinion. It was put forth as a FACT…which it isn’t. People have the right to their own opinions; they don’t have the right to their own facts. And, yes, she does posit these opinions as facts because she does wish them to be true.</p>
<p>By picking out parts of my quotes without their context or what they were a reply to is really not a fair way to make your case.</p>
<p>Of course Alabama is not to be confused with Notre Dame, the pro team who fired Tyrone Willingham for not winning enough and then paid him just under $2 million to buy out his contract. The same Notre Dame who fired their next coach, Charlie Weis, for not winning enough and then paid him (choose your most trusted source) somewhere between $4 million and $18 million to buy out his contract. </p>
<p>It’s reassuring to see that at Notre Dame the administrators are stewards of the lofty ideals of academe and the character-building nature of sport who don’t have to wait for the fans to be standing outside the stadium with petitions in order to fire their coaches. Like true professionals they serially squander exorbitant amounts of money on their own by adhering to the Lombardi Axiom: “Winning isn’t everything. It’s the ONLY thing.”</p>
<p>Re post #43 in support of ‘poor African-American young men’ from poor single parent families. Hey thanks, that’s mighty-white of you. Just what we need, more stereotyping on why we need different standards for those poor unmotivated [execept for sports] black students. </p>
<p>I’m not sure what you are getting at with this statement, “might white of me”. I only referenced the higher percentage of African Americans in the South to help explain the differences in grad rates between schools like Notre Dame and Southern schools. How would you have put it? I never said we need different standards. But I am reminding everyone here that if UA and other SEC schools refused to admit student athletes who would not otherwise be admitted to their programs, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and the Northeastern establishment would heap scorn on the South, once again, accusing it of racism. As I wrote in my earlier post, I want the standards raised for the student athletes, and think over time, the higher expectations would affect the culture that currently leads to lower academic achievement for African Americans. Don’t throw your racial problem at me. </p>
<p>Facts are facts, and stereotypes are stereotypes, and I am only guilty of presenting the former. Would you like me to present documentation of the racial differential for ACT and SAT scores? Until we are honest about the differences, we can’t summon the resources to rectify the situation.</p>
<p>Atlanta68, read my post and evaluate it again. You seem to dart from one opinion to another. And your “facts” are not novel. The gap between white student board scores and those of black students (and athletes, for that matter) is well known and is not denied by serious observers. And by the way, Jackson and Sharpton are not dumb enough to make a stink about college athletes who don’t measure up academically. I could be wrong, but I don’t believe so.</p>
<p>If football players enter the NFL draft prior to graduation, would that lower the graduation rate, or are those players removed from the denominator? </p>
<h1>56, good post. Football is a predominant part of the culture at many schools. Some happen to have higher average SAT/GPA admit rates, some happen to be located in the north vs the south. A winning football team is a powerful tool for new student recruitment as well as alumni donations. I believe I read somewhere, perhaps here on CC, that the number of Bama applicants was up this year, presumably due to their higher visibility as a result of winning the BCS national championship.</h1>
<p>*If football players enter the NFL draft prior to graduation, would that lower the graduation rate, or are those players removed from the denominator? *</p>
<p>No, they’re not. That’s why I mentioned that Bama’s grad rate (and certainly others’) would be higher if it was allowed to include those who “went pro” but went back and finished their degrees.</p>
<p>A winning football team is a powerful tool for new student recruitment as well as alumni donations. I believe I read somewhere, perhaps here on CC, that the number of Bama applicants was up this year, presumably due to their higher visibility as a result of winning the BCS national championship.</p>
<p>True…but Bama has had a steady climb in applications for the past 6 years…even before Nick Saban came to Bama. </p>
<p>2004 9,106
2005 10,707
2006 12,513
2007 14,313
2008 18,500
2009 19,518
2010 estimate of over 22,000</p>
<p>A winning football team is a powerful tool for new student recruitment as well as alumni donations.</p>
<p>As a native Southern Californian, I have seen how USC used its status as a football powerhouse to its financial advantage to raise its rankings over the last 25-30 years.</p>