I think I should read Gatekeepers.
@Jon234 , that’s great! Do you mind telling us if your daughter is in a private school, or hooked in some way? I think it’s perhaps unusual for AOs to routinely call guidance counsellors and write handwritten notes. She must have been very impressive, congrats to her.
On reflection, if, after the parent/applicant has read the applicable books, talked with the GC, etc. that instead of spending hours devising/running statistical analyses, they should simply drive to a craft store, buy some glue and paint, and create their very own Sorting Hat. The difference in the results will probably be statistically insignificant. 
Small suburban Catholic school ( on a scholarship). First in the family to attend college. To be clear, it was her GC who phoned the Admissions Officers. If it wasn’t holistic it sure feels like it was. I have been wrong before though.
@Jon234. You mentioned you are a first generation American. What country did you emigrate from? It’s important because as part of this process people look back on these posts for basic guidance. Perhaps your original language passed to your children which is a big plus building a diverse campus. The first gen history was very influential this year. Is your ethnicity considered an urm? Which adds a little boost. With a star student like our daughter these small extras can make the difference between maybe and yes.
Sorry to reply to this post but new to this site and it’s kind of confusing. Anyway, recently read your post on “average excellent” and in you reference two other posts one to see the colleges your D applied to and one to see where she was accepted but I can see how to find those posts, can you help? Also two other questions: 1. is there as way to DM a user directly? 2. can you provide some guidance how best to use and navigate this site?
Not until you have 15 posts.
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/community-forum-issues/2064380-updates-to-the-membership-levels.html#latest
I don’t think you can predict much when it comes to admission to really selective colleges. The more selective the admissions, the more arbitrary the process. Many people tout “holistic admissions” in which a team from the school finely crafts its class as if they were sculpting marble. I think “holistic” is a polite way of saying schools discriminate in any way they choose in order to meet their private objectives. And they try to do so in a way that does not get them into any legal trouble. They tend to take a disproportionate number of “URM’s” and a disproportionate number of students from very wealthy families. I think if you look at the numbers, those are the only true hooks apart from athletics at some schools. For the vast middle of applicants it is more of a crap shoot. Just to be clear, I am not complaining about “holistic admission” - private schools should be free to admit whomever they please. I am just describing the process.
Thanks!
@privatebanker First gen means that the kid will be the first in the family to attend a college, having nothing to do with race/ethnicity.
@jzducol, you are probably right about first generation. The virtue trophies will vary over the years.
@WISdad23 Actually, the biggest hook these days at ultra-selective colleges is the First Gen hook, being close to 20% and still rising in each admission cycle in recent years, much greater than any other category like single URM, RA or developmental admit etc. If you add low income like Questbridge its probably close to a quarter of admits with FGLI status.
@WISdad23 sorry, I think our posts order got reversed when I was doing editing 
I think that most applicants really misunderstand how elete colleges use SAT/ACT scores within their decision-making process. They colleges consistely say that they look at the scores “in context” but on CC it tends to be viewed as a linear qualifier – assuming that a student from a Northeastern private prep school with a 1570 SAT has a better chance at admission than a student from rural public school in Oklahoma with a 1410 — or that multiple retakes to boost an already high score materially improves chances at the elite colleges. And I just don’t think that it works that way.
So @calmom, if a student from a rural high school in State - a which is known to have low SAT scores - gets a 1450 the Select Colleges would view that student in a better light than a 1550 from a known high scoring prep school, assuming that their gpa and course rigor was the same?
So @calmom, if a student from a rural high school in State - a which is known to have low SAT scores - gets a 1450 the Select Colleges would view that student in a better light than a 1550 from a known high scoring prep school, assuming that their gpa and course rigor was the same?
Well, the point is that their course rigor wouldn’t be the same because the schools are very different. That rural high scool may offer few AP’s, for instance. Each student is being evaluated as a whole, in the context of where that student is coming from and what that student has done to distinguish themselves. But an SAT score that is viewed as weak by CC standards may be viewed as quite strong in the context of that particular student.
Now if all that rural student did was go to class & back, get A’s, maybe participate some school clubs and sports, and come up with a moderately high SAT score… that kid isn’t getting into Yale either. But my point is that if we add in some distinguishing characteristics that are worthy of elite-school attention … then that 1450 score is not going to be disqualifying.
I think that for the schools with single-digit admissions, the concept of “all things being equal” and one with the higher SAT is simply a false scenario in the RD round. It never happens – because at that point, I think every single RD admit is special and unique in some way… and brings something of value to the college, even though it may not be outwardly apparent.
Ok, so @calmom you’re saying, the rural kid who’s hit that score, maxed out her/his school experience and taken on any other opportunity s/he can find gets this holistic approach? And that stands true for EA/ED rounds too? I’m guessing the reason one needs a balance of multiple matches & reaches is to find that/those school(s) that’s hasn’t seen that type of kid (state/score/gpa/ec/etc) in their pile yet. And the safe schools are there cause you’d love to go to them too if the matches and reaches don’t workout.
Everyone gets a holistic approach.
The EA/ED round is also holistic, but because of differences in admission rates & institutional priorities at that phase, students don’t need to be quite as special to make the cut. So basically the prep school kid with the top grades, great test scores, rigorous courseload that looks just the same as all the other prep school applicants with top grades, great test score, rigorous courseload is going to have a better chance in a pool where 20% get admitted vs. a pool where 4% get admitted. Nothing guaranteed there either, but at that point the student doesn’t need to be quite as special.
I also think that EA/ED may be a phase that colleges use to lay groundwork for whatever mass statistical goals they have for test scores. That is, if Yale wants to assure that its median score range for admitted students is 710-800 … then SCEA may be a good time to prioritize those numbers, because the SCEA pool is probably weighted toward privileged kids applying from high-performing high schools. And Yale is not wedded to those numbers for all admits – they are still going to admit a handful of students with scores in the 500-590 range … and overall it can admit 25% of students with scores of 700 or below and still maintain its median score range – I’m just suggesting that the numbers may be much more important in terms of group statistics than they are on an individual basis.
So the kid in the RD round with 600 range scores may or may not be hurt by those scores depending in part on whether Yale’s other admissions have kept it on target for the median score range it wants to maintain. And I’m suggesting that setting higher scores as a priority in the SCEA round would give the institution more freedom to meet diversity goals in RD, which is the time when is likely to have a much more diverse admission pool.
Note: I know nothing at all about Yale admissions. I am just using that as an example because I happened to pull up a recent Yale CDS for reference for score ranges of admitted students –https://oir.yale.edu/sites/default/files/cds_2017-2018_0.pdf – and I happened to pull up Yale because it is one of the Ivies that admitted the first generation college-attending daughter of the poster above who had a 1470 score- although that score is probably well within Yale’s median range so not a deficit in any case. (And I happened to notice an interesting oddity about the Yale CDS, but that’s opens up a whole different can of worms).
Responding to post #3… for smaller colleges, believe it or not they DO read the applications. Twice maybe even three readers see the application. My D had a very personal note from Whitman College, referencing her photography interest, her essay topic and her sports schedule. This is not fake nor phony – the college looks at the entire person’s application. My S worked in Admissions at his LAC for his work study job, and said every application gets read, twice or more times. I do interviews for my alma mater; they read the applications of every student. So, YES, many schools do indeed read and evaluate every application. I know our state Uni says they review the app, but they also use a formula of grades + scores as a baseline. If a coach, band director, dept chair, dance advisor, etc. have a student on their radar, it is made known to the Admissions Dept., which helps path them to direct admit. For the 45,000 other applicants, staff looks at the stats and other parts of the appilcations.
In response to many other thoughts on this thread, someone else gave GOOD ADVICE: Apply to 2-3 reaches (for some that’s Harvard, for others it’s your state flagship, for others it’s a great school that you may not get into but dream of), 4-5 matches (ones that you are likely to get into) and 2 safeties (100% you’ll get in). Here’s a fabricated example for a top notch student interested in a LAC.
For competitive student interested in LACs (1450+ SAT/32+ ACT and 3.85+ GPA uw, leadership roles in sports, clubs, extracurr). Perhaps this student is interested in Poli Sci or English:
Reach: Amherst, Bowdoin, Carlelton,
Match: Beliot, Macalester, Kenyon, Denison,
Safety: Ohio Wesleyan, Wheaton (MA), state school option
So much depends on WHAT a student wants to study, too – some schools have awesome sciences while others offer stellar English or Political Science. For kids who are solid students, but perhaps didn’t have the AP courses racked up nor the highest scores (1250 SAT, 29 ACT, 3.5 uw), here is a West Coast fabrication:
Reach: Washington, USC
Match: Montana, Oregon, SDSU, Oregon State
Safety: Boise State, WA State
You could go on and on in any particular region or across the country looking at schools. And as someone else said, some schools, like Tulane, use to have a 30% admit rate a few years ago, and now have a 17% admit rate. YES, true.So study and learn about schools because some have become much harder to get into.
A bunch of high achieving students from my D’s highly ranked HS got waitlisted or rejected from HPYS and MIT. Some were prepared for this, while others were stunned. I look at the parents and could have predicted who would have which reaction based on the realistic POV of the parent. They were not honest with themselves or their kids about getting into these schools. Tough, but true. These kids are talented, but competeting against so many talented kids has it’s problems. Namely, you didn’t get into the Ivy of your dreams.
Over-reach is happening every year because we all need to be more honest about the odds. Our kids need to hear that it’s hard to get into college and should realize that they are one of thousands who get rejected. Just make sure they apply to schools they can get into as part of the overall mix, and make sure they want to attend every school they apply to as well. (Just read some other threads about students who don’t want to go to their safety…) There is a chance a smart kid will get in, but there’s more of a chance that they won’t. Be prepared.
Hope this helps some readers. Lots of other threads cover this info, too.
I was aware of what first gen means. I asked Jon these other questions because on another thread he detailed his history including coming to America. He has noted his daughter got into Harvard Yale Princeton and Williams. Wl at Swat. And a general sense of stats. I recall. Was trying to fill out the Picture to put into context. Trying to get a sense of who is actually landing these coveted spots. And a full profile would be really helpful.