<p>ssmom62 may I also recommend that you begin teaching your S the “real value of money” immediately? You are not doing him any justice in keeping him in the dark.</p>
<p>I started my D (now 19 and very financially savvy - much more than her friends) on a financial budget when she was 12. You can PM me if you’d like details. It’s not difficult, and she thanks me (in more ways than one) often.</p>
<p>To OP, As already alluded to by other posters, one needs to differentiate between tuition discounts versus truely meaningful merit aid. If you have difficulty meeting full costs at public institutions, then “tuition discounts” at private schools are unlikely to meet your needs. Such discounts are unlikely to drop your costs at a private below that for a public. </p>
<p>Having said that, a student with excellent credentials is able to get full merit aids at many public and private colleges. For example, many colleges offer full rides to National Merit Finalists, a credential that is within reach to many strong students. I know that several State University of NY give out such. There are a few excellent schools, e.g., William and Mary, UNC etc that also give out full rides to students. The credential of these students are normally stronger than just being National Merit finalists. Finally, there are a few elite schools such as University of Chicago, Duke and Caltech, which also provide full rides. However, the credentials of such students have to be quite exceptional, i.e., just short of walking on water.</p>
<p>In short, merit scholarships at private college do not necessarily provide you a cost lower than that of a public institution, unless a student’s credentials are unusally strong, independent of those of the average students at said institution. Having credentials stronger than the average students at a college may give you “tuition discounts” but not the kind of aids that you will need.</p>
<p>I wonder why a scholarship would only be considered “merit” if it went to a tippy-top student, or if it were granted by an elite school, whereas you call other scholarships “tuition discounts?” </p>
<p>Parents just need to balance the schools with their student’s needs and the bottom line. Doesn’t much matter how highfalutin the name of the award is.</p>
<p>weenie, do your kids have full ride merit scholarships?</p>
<p>I ask because the in-state tuition for SUNY is under $5K per year. My d has friends from California attending SUNY Purchase because even with out-of-state tuition tacked on, SUNY is still less than $12K a year. </p>
<p>So if you have a private school where the tuition is $30K, and they offer a $20K scholarship-- the New York family is still looking at a lot more money for the private school than for the SUNY option. In general, the SUNY’s aren’t great, but many of them are pretty darn good – nothing to ignore when costs are factored in. </p>
<p>“Merit” aid comes in all varieties – my d. received merit offers of $8-$10K from several private schools, but for us that didn’t make a dent in the tuition. </p>
<p>My son is at a CSU, which I think is roughly equivalent to many of the SUNY’s, so I have a parent’s eye view of the comparison between reasonably-good public and elite private – the private education is better, but I don’t think its 10x better, which is the cost-differential based on full sticker price (which, of course, we don’t pay). </p>
<p>I think that when we talk about merit aid, in fairness we need to distinguish between a small scholarship, a full-tuition scholarship, and a full-ride scholarship.</p>
<p>Also I’d add that here in California, in-staters can also get merit aid at the state publics – my son has almost a full ride in the coming year at his CSU - he is supporting himself and expects to graduate debt-free. </p>
<p>I don’t know what the situation is with the SUNY’s – I just know that with a sophomore in high school who has a father expecting him to pay his own way, a $15K scholarship at some private college in a faraway state may not be the best option. For the mom – who is asking the right questions at the right time – I think it is important to be realistic about what we mean by “merit” money. Given the cost of the SUNY’s, she will be looking for an award to match an annual tuition of ~$4500 - and she will have a hard sell with the dad if the son is looking at an out of state option at a college the dad has never heard of that costs two or three times as much.</p>
<p>My son’s first choice school is giving him about one-half tuition. Schools that are no better offered him no $$. He didn’t choose based on money but on fit. He is a very strong student who picked a very strong school. It bothers me when people say, 'XX college doesn’t give merit $$–they don’t HAVE to." Well fine; my son doesn’t HAVE to go there either. HYP are totally pricing the middle class out of attending because they don’t HAVE to give merit $$. Is this a point of pride?</p>
<p>"I wonder why a scholarship would only be considered “merit” if it went to a tippy-top student, or if it were granted by an elite school, whereas you call other scholarships “tuition discounts?” </p>
<p>I’m with you. I consider ALL aid to be merit scholarships, and if they want my d., I want to know how much they are expecting me to pay for the privilege of my loaning her to them. Doesn’t really matter if she gets “close to a full ride”, 90% of the cost when the full-freight is $50k, or nothing whatsoever when the full-cost is $5k - it works out to $5k either way, and that’s the bottom line.</p>
<p>“HYP are totally pricing the middle class out of attending because they don’t HAVE to give merit $$. Is this a point of pride?”</p>
<p>In a word, yes. It makes the leisure good seem that much more valuable when it is less attainable.</p>
<p>In my mind, scholarship vs. discounting is a matter of semantics. Different students are paying different costs to attend (either through merit of financial aid). Bottom line is that if a private school costs 43K and the merit award is 12k, then there is still 31K to deal with, and many families will not get more in grants. Padad’s post makes sense to me.</p>
<p>Cross posted with Mini, and all aid is just that…the bottom line.</p>
<p>Practically cross-posted with mini too. How do you respond so fast? The whole thing just seems sort of icky to me sometimes. My son wanted small LAC anyway–even Oberlin felt large to him. It’s just the attitude I deplore.</p>
<p>To my knowledge SUNY’s Honors Colleges do offer merit money; I’ve heard of full tuition, but I don’`t know about room and board. </p>
<p>Another option that is fairly comparable to the UC’s is the three state supported schools at Cornell. I am not looking up exact figures, but for NYS residents the three schools, Human Ecology, Labor and Industrial Relations, and Agricultural Science, are quite discounted, something like $29K vs. $46K. I am not sure if they offer merit money or not. In addition, thet are easier to get into than Arts and Sciences because the applicant pool is pretty much limited to NYS students. They may not sound appealing, but consider:
<p>Many kids who are not especially interested in these majors choose this option for financial reasons. One can put together a fairly standard bio major from either HE or AG, and MANY pre-meds choose this. LIR turns out future lawyers, even corporate lawyers. And Cornell has said that next year it will accept simultaneous applications to two different schools. This allows application to a NYS school and A & S’s so you can see if there is a possible aid offer.</p>
<p>It’s true. SUNY’s are not exciting, but many are pleased with Geneseo’s LAC-like atmosphere. Stony Brook’s Music Department is in the top ten in the country. Purchase is one off the few public arts colleges, but liberal arts are available there, too. Crane School of Music is a well-regarded conservatory at SUNY Potsdam. Many kids I know have really enjoyed New Paltz: cute town, Hudson Valley.</p>
<p>The problem in New York is that we have so many privates and a culture that supports them downstate. The schools are also seriously underfunded. That said, I had serious, dedicated students at Stony Brook.</p>
<p>Oh, I also want to add that I do know of cases where need based aid made an elite private school less expensive than a NYS school, especially when more than one child is attending college at a time. However, I was talking about state supported schools because poster indicated she didn’t believe the family would qualify for large need basedc aid. However, it’s certainly worth applying and filling out the FAFSA is child knows financial considerations will play a part.</p>
<p>Search SUNY college’s web sites. </p>
<p><a href=“http://www.brockport.edu/scholarships/extraordinary/[/url]”>http://www.brockport.edu/scholarships/extraordinary/</a></p>
<p>SUNY Brockport offers free rides based on merit, "An award for freshmen is close to a “full ride” valued at more than $51,600 over four years for valedictorians or salutatorians who have a 96 or better high school average, and 1250* or higher SAT or 27 ACT score. ?</p>
<p>Also, our kids’ buddy won a free ride to SUNY Potsdam: he had 700-700-700 SATs, class rank of 3, A+ all-around, all-American record. <a href=“http://www.potsdam.edu/content.php?contentID=3A0294DB292F64DDC6792E0EF8533249[/url]”>http://www.potsdam.edu/content.php?contentID=3A0294DB292F64DDC6792E0EF8533249</a></p>
<p>SUNY Oswego:
<a href=“Scholarships | Financial Aid”>Scholarships | Financial Aid;
<p>Point is, there is some merit aid at SUNY schools.</p>
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<p>Why? No one has a crystal ball. The distinction can’t be made until the decisions are in and the total cost to attend is determined. In post #23 when I said the “bottom line,” I was referring to the actual out of pocket costs. </p>
<p>The best you can do (if one is so inclined) is try to identify schools where your kid might be eligible for some money and figure out if they are a fit and then give them a shot, of course having some sure financial safeties in the mix. (And I’m not just talking about private schools here. My son #2’s cheapest choice by far was a public university in Ohio.)</p>
<p>Why? Because the OP made these statements:
Since the OP lives in NY, we know that “state school tuition” = ~$4500 annually. We know that the OP is worried about paying for that, and that her husband doesn’t want to contribute at all – so he certainly is not likely to be receptive to paying <em>more</em> for a “weaker college”. </p>
<p>Anything less than a full tuition scholarship at a private college is probably going to be more expensive than the in-state college, given the availability of merit aid at the SUNY’s, and factoring in travel costs to out-of-state colleges where “geographical diversity” helps win a scholarship. An out-of-state public would have to include some sort of waiver of out-of-state tuition. So it really is potentially misleading to use a generic reference to “merit aid” without specifying how far it goes to wipe out the cost of tuition. </p>
<p>If you know your budget is X, then to “try to identify schools where your kid might be eligible for some money” is not good enough - you have to target schools where the kid might be eligible for ENOUGH money. Otherwise, it’s just setting the kid up for disappointment – there is no point in applying to a school that you know you can’t afford even if admitted.</p>
<p>^ Hence my suggestion that she fill out the FAFSA calculator. I don’t think counting on friends at work for their assessment of your EFC is a good idea, and we all know what a broad range people consider middle class to be.</p>
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<p>Well, obviously. Not only that, but it pays to look at the total cost of attendance, not just the amount of merit aid you might get.</p>
<p>And I totally agree with not setting your kid up for disappointment. That’s been my mantra on CC for years. The sooner you start to calculate this stuff, and share the real numbers with your kid, the better. Additionally, they have to understand that their academic performance influences what college they may end up at - not just based on selectivity - but, perhaps more important, based on money granted.</p>
<p>In order to have a reasonable chance at significant merit aid your student needs to do several things. First begin by researching colleges where she will be an academically strong candidate for admissions, SAT’s well into the top 25%ile for a start. Next do research to determine those colleges relatively gererous with merit aid. USNews has statistics on both these on there subscription site and is a good starting point. It is well worth the $10.</p>
<p>Once your student has found 20+ colleges which seem to fit her needs, then go onto the college web site to see what finaid says about the particular scholarships they offer.</p>
<p>Our son did this, applied to 7 and received offers of about $350,000 in merit aid. The only one which did not pan out was Oberlin College. The ones that did offer good merit aid included Case and Rensselaer both very good colleges. He chose to attend Rensselaer and is receiving $25k per year in merit scholarships.</p>
<p>Because his hs record seemed to place him in the top 25% of his RPI class he is doing very good academically(3.75gpa after 3 years) and has been selected for a number of other academically based bennies(undergrad TA,s, dept honorary, participation in a RAIR Lab research group project, etc). The icing is being selected for an absolutely fabulous summer internship in Pasadena this year.</p>
<p>All this took a lot of time starting the latter half of his junior year but it paid off handsomely.</p>
<p>ssmom: Don’t allow the pricetag to be a deterrent. We are in the same boat as you ie…solidly middle class and not likely to get any need based FA. My girls are interested in a variety of schools from the 42,000 range down to state schools which are, on paper much more affordable. </p>
<p>I suggest doing the Peterson’s college search and comparing the schools. Make sure you look at the Comprehensive costs which include tuition, housing and fees, but more importantly look at the “average indebtedness upon graduation” figures. That gives you an idea of how much aid the school provides.</p>
<p>To give you an idea, Pomona College costs in the 40,000 range. About twice what it costs at the averagae University of California campus. However, one of my colleagues has a son and a daughter who have attended there for less than it would have cost them to attend a state funded UC campus.</p>
<p>Private schools often have enormous endowments which allow them to offer really nice FA packages to accepted students. We told our girls that they can apply wherever but that that making it affordable is their job. Meaning, they have to hustle up the scholarship dough and get the grades and scores which will mean they can go where they want to. Also, because colleges want a the %age of accepted students who actually attend to be high, once they accept you they often do their best to make it as affordable as possible.</p>
<p>We have two kinds of “Reach” schools, academic and financial. </p>
<p>Also, our little HS (public< 500 students) recently graduated a girl w/ a 3.7 and good but not fabulous SAT scores. She ended up receiving over 50,000 in scolarship money for her freshman year because she really worked at it. $$ is out there.</p>
<p>i bet some of the SUNY’s will give merit aid to ppl who are ivy-caliber students.</p>
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<p>What about the family EFC? Does that matter?</p>
<p>Pomona College gives out solely need-based financial aids.</p>
<p>The students I am referring to only had/have to pay the EFC. Both did very well at securing scholarships outside of their FA offers so the burden on their parents…he’s a HS teacher she works part time as an Elementary School Aid…was minimal</p>