This waitlist stuff, while ultimately good, is tough. We thought about doing a quick trip down tonight, but other than touring the campus generally, I don’t think it’d be pretty insightful. Pomona just had commencement yesterday, so most of the faculty, many administrators, and nearly all the students are gone.
Anyhow, I see Pomona and Swarthmore as very similar—equal rigor, size, diversity, and endowment; the ability to take courses at other consortium schools; and a trend more toward intellectual than preprofessional. Here are the differences:
Pomona’s consortium is much easier to use and provides a greater community of students for social benefit.
Pomona has a reputation for being more laid-back against Swat’s reputation for intensity, although I think there’s a little echo chamber effect to each.
Pomona is within a long-day’s drive; Swat is a 2,500 mile flight.
Pomona’s newish art facilities are stunning, and it’s new museum demonstrates an commitment to art.
Swat is a little cheaper, including travel costs.
I think Philly is more of a readily available resource for Swat than LA is for Pomona. I went to college in LA and know it well enough. I’m sure 5C students do things in LA, but it’s gonna be far less convenient than Philly.
We know that Swat’s art department has amazing off-campus opportunities; Pomona’s probably does too, but we haven’t been able to confirm.
D24 was able to go to an admitted student day and really get to know Swat, which she liked, but she never got an opportunity to visit Pomona, so it’s less of a known quantity. (Obviously D24 researched Pomona before applying, but D24’s familiarity with it is more abstract than personal.)
Anyhow, I’m trying to connect D24 to someone (student and/or faculty) in Pomona’s art department. But it’s difficult because so few students and faculty are around, and D24 has to make her decision by tomorrow. I don’t think she can go wrong either way though.
Possibly, but I reckon we’ll only ask for the extension if D24 cannot speak to someone sooner.
FWIW, on the May 1 RD deadline, D24 asked for a 2-day extension from Dartmouth and Swat because she returned back from the Dartmouth admitted students’ visit on April 30, and both schools declined her extension request.
Both are amazing schools, Pomona is more well known on the West Coast and I would give it the edge in terms of “prestige” or perception of selectivity. Would spend time really looking at course catalogue and professors (how many full time instructors are there, how many classes per semester to choose from), major requirements, any core classes or distribution requirements. Consortium classes are often difficult to get into, so expect that almost 95% of your classes will be at your home campus. The issue with smaller schools is that there are fewer classes on offer so it can be difficult to get the classes you want.
Is it just me or is there a sense that Scripps and Pitzer don’t exactly add value the equation? They’re supposedly the arts oriented members of the consortium.
I believe the visual arts offerings at Scripps will appeal to this student.
I associate Pitzer more with social sciences, such as psychology, sociology and anthropology. Based partly on its xeriscaped campus, this also may represent the Claremont most committed to environmental studies.
While she (and I) came to really, really like Swarthmore, the the social and academic opportunities of the 5C Consortium and its closer proximity to home were too good to pass up. (As a parent, I’m also impressed with Pomona’s reputation for general student satisfaction and quality of life.) But I actually view Pomona and Swarthmore to be much more similar than different, and D24 can spend a semester at Swat through their exchange program. As I said elsewhere, it was very easy to say yes to Pomona, but also very hard to say no to Swarthmore.
In terms of the 5C Consortium, it seems like most Sagehens regularly take courses at the other 5Cs. The course registration system is the same for all colleges, so registering for a class at another 5C is no more difficult than doing so for a Pomona class. As merc81 indicated, Scripps also has a strong art department, which fills in some of the gaps in Pomona’s facilities, including ceramics, printmaking, and bookarts. HMC has certain desirable STEM offerings, CMC is good for econ and poly sci, and Pitzer is great for environmental social sciences. The only classes I’ve heard being impacted at Pomona/the 5Cs are CS, which is unlikely to affect D24 much.
FWIW, D24 applied and got into Scripps too. I think it’s a real hidden gem. It’s got a great campus, great dorms, great outcomes, and a student body that is as well credentialed as Smith or Bryn Mawr. Scripps would have factored higher in D24’s initial consideration if its financial aid package were better.
Good for you. If I’m being honest, I’m just mostly impressed that your D is one of those rare birds who is secure enough in themselves, and focused enough on what they want, to pass on the Ivy League brand and choose the school she most wanted. Perhaps a bit of a controversial “pop off” statement for CC on my part, but I stand by it. I literally LOL when people on CC say “Ivy League is just an athletic league.” Uh, no. That’s probably the least important thing about it. A detail, if you will. It is a massively powerful brand, and a good majority of the high-end student population have a hard time turning away from it, even when it’s clear that the Ivy option isn’t the best option.
I know Pomona is nobody’s consolation prize, but in brand world, it doesn’t occupy a big space. That’s just the reality of the SLAC choice. But the people who matter, which almost never is Uncle Hank, will know Pomona and what it offers.
While there are areas I prefer to where the 5Cs finds themselves (and the Main Line is one of them), it’s hard to find fault with this choice.
Congrats. She really had some great choices. Obviously a very strong student.
FWIW, most kids we know would have chosen Pomona over Dartmouth and Swarthmore had they been fortunate enough to be admitted to all. From our small independent school in WA state, no one has ever attended Dartmouth, and only one has gone to Swarthmore, but several to Pomona and every year there are a few who go to the 5 C’s overall (usually at least one to Pitzer, at least 2 to Scripps, and at least one to Harvey Mudd and CMC every year). I’d venture to say in the west, Pomona is known more, and for people who want to stay in the western US after graduation, it would be considered the better choice. Unless a person is from PA, not much known about the Main Line either. Plus there’s the weather thing, which is actually a consideration for many. Anyway, congratulations to OP’s daughter! Very exciting!
Fair point. But you and I (as I recall) live in Seattle. And Dartmouth’s reputation for conservatism is strongly emphasized here among the crowd of people who care about this stuff. Also, as I’m sure you’d agree, there is a STRONG general pull to California for kids who grow up in the PNW, which I think is your take as well.
I’ve had kids in school on the east coast for the last many years now, and my frame of reference has been distorted a bit, I’m afraid. Also, Swat’s reputation for intensity is as strong in the elite school crowds as is Dartmouth’s for being conservative. I think those are things that cut against those two schools in particular for kids coming from Seattle when they have other choices like Pomona.
Still, in the burbs, particularly the east side, where we were for many years, Dartmouth’s rep for being conservative and fratty would not scare off that many kids. For that reason, the east side public high schools with strong academics send kids to it all the time, many to play sports. I think overall, as you and I have discussed once or twice, the LAC is not as strong a draw or is as well known in the west as they tend to be in the east. I say this all the time, but the state of Washington is full of people who assume Gonzaga is harder to get into than Whitman, and wouldn’t know Pomona from Tacoma.
Those who have an opinion of Ivy League schools in general may be concerned with selectivity. By this standard, Pomona exists parallel to the Ivies, placing 16th by “selectivity rank” in a WalletHub analysis, for example. The Ivies, for comparison, place from 3rd to 19th in this category:
As a personal opinion, I don’t believe the Ivy League, even if considered as a concept, has anything to do with this student’s choice.
I agree. And selectivity is quite strongly associated with the Ivy League brand. But there is more, including historical name recognition. That’s where Pomona will start to struggle in comparisons to Ivy League colleges.
I’m not taking a side on this. I’m just point out what it is, and it is what it is: an overwhelmingly influential brand on student choice.
Fair points! I agree, especially about the pull to CA for PNW kids. Most here don’t know Pomona, Swat, Wes, the list goes on. However, we live in the burbs and have been in the independent school world since 1995 (I was a teacher at one before becoming a parent at another), and still no one I’ve ever heard of has gone to Dartmouth, maybe due to the frat/conservative reputation but maybe it’s really just the distance. And meh, most kids are thrilled to attend UW. And I would imagine most kids in OP’s circle would be thrilled to go to UNR, UU or ASU. She’s clearly a highly accomplished student and I wish her all the best (and sorry to derail her thread )
It’s difficult to quantify or articulate satisfaction or quality of life, but sometimes “It just feels right” is enough of a tie breaker. Congratulations to you and your daughter on a happy resolution!
I do not know for sure, since I am in my little region of the US, but there are incredible schools that many people and employers are unfamiliar with- thus the brand is moot… Rice/Bowdoin/Tufts/Carleton/Grinnell… There are departments and teachers in lesson known or reputable schools, that are top in the country. Choosing a school isn’t about where you go but what you can do and how you can harness the opportunities best. Thrive anywhere in undergrad and your options are better for ‘brand’ grad school.
And it’s absolutely certain that “brand” grad schools (and all grad schools) have heard of these schools. Might be one of many reasons why LAC grads do very well in grad school admissions. The world of academia is very different than other sectors of employment.
I’m going to stick up for poor, little, Ivy League Dartmouth a little here because I genuinely believe that, putting aside the Ivy League stuff, it’s a fabulous school.
While we’re completely not immune to the Ivy brand, D24 applied to Dartmouth because it’s essentially a liberal arts college with great financial aid, which was the running theme in her search. In my mind, Dartmouth has more in common with schools like Williams, Bowdoin, and Wesleyan than with most of its Ivy counterparts. For what it’s worth, D24 really liked Dartmouth. She liked the fact that it was both academic and social, she liked the traditions, and she liked its outdoorsy culture. I think that Greek life at Dartmouth, while pervasive, is categorically different from most other schools, although one had to parse out the firsthand accounts from reputational shibboleths to understand that. And I don’t think Dartmouth’s student body has been particularly “conservative” for at least the last decade or two. Yet Dartmouth seems to have a weird reputation on CC , with Ivy-seekers critical of its LAC qualities and LAC-seekers critical of its R1 qualities. But for D24, Dartmouth’s hybrid model was very attractive. (In the same way, the greater community of the 5C Consortium is a huge selling point for Pomona.) If she were more interested in, say, political science than studio art, Dartmouth would have been much harder to say no to.
But that’s a hypothetical for another day. The more I consider Pomona, the more appealing it seems. It feels like D24 won the lottery. Branding aside, the worst thing I can say about it is that its mascot/demonym is terribly unimpressive. Go Sagehens!
Also, Swat’s reputation for intensity is as strong in the elite school crowds as is Dartmouth’s for being conservative. I think those are things that cut against those two schools in particular for kids coming from Seattle when they have other choices like Pomona.
