Not surprising when most Asian Americans are immigrants or low-generation-number descendants of immigrants, a large percentage of whom were selected for high educational attainment as graduate students and skilled workers (50% of those from China and 70% of those from India have bachelor’s degrees, far higher than the bachelor’s degree attainment in the general populations of the US, China, and India).
Absolutely. This one new study is bogus. However, there is robust research showing discrimination in hiring against POC, and particularly against people thought to be African-American.
Definitely there is a racial bias in hiring that works against African American males. But this is a college information website, and there is also definitely a racial bias in favor of admitting African American males. It would be very interesting to see whether the fall in economic status also applies to AA males who are graduated from colleges.
I suspect that the drop off in economic status applies largely to those who do not finish a 4 year degree. Most well-off families push their children to finish a 4 year degree.
Here’s a quote from the Chetty et al. recent paper, confirming what @ucbalumnus says about Asian success rates being driven by recent immigrants:
Two percentiles (2 percentage points) is not no difference, but it’s a tiny difference.
Interestingly, it was the same for Jewish immigrant families 60 - 80 years ago. The children of the immigrants achieved at very high rates, even though they grew up in poor, non-English speaking households. They had access to excellent public schools, and despite the anti-Jewish quotas in place at the Ivies, achieved at a very high rate by excelling at public universities. But their children were more interested in causes, like civil rights, and self-fulfillment, as part of the 60s. They didn’t achieve at such a high level. Now, their grandchildren, most definitely don’t achieve as a group at that same high level.
It’s the hungry immigrant story all over again for Asian immigrant families now, complete with admissions quotas.
I may be the only person on CC that grew up with many descendants of Chinese “coolies”. While they are not as impressive as some of the more recent arrivals, they are impressive none-the-less. Ditto for Japanese Canadians.
When the Japanese Cultural Centre opened many years ago, the Prime Minister, Trudeau senior(?), made a point of commenting on their collective accomplishment.
In the early Deng years, 90% of Chinese students did not go home. Now the return rate is about 75%. I am told the best students are those who were admitted to China’s elite schools on the basis of the GaoKao, and were send to do further study abroad on government expenses. After returning to China, they would be given seed money to establish a lab or a company. A family friend told me there is a guy in his Cambridge lab that fits the bill.
Probably the most famous alumnus of this largess is quantum physicist Pan Jianhui. His work on quantum communication is revolutionary. I am sure his former supervisor in the University of Vienna must be very proud.
Charts, charts, charts! Make your own income mobility charts, based on the Chetty et al. paper:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/27/upshot/make-your-own-mobility-animation.html
I looked at the income trajectory of lower middle class white boys. They have a roughly equal chance of ending up in any of the five income quintiles as adults; total income mobility for that particular group. Then I looked at the income trajectory of rich black boys. They also had a roughly equal chance of ending up in any of the five income quintiles. [You can’t compare these two groups in one chart; you need two different charts.]
In other words, a rich black boy has about the same results in life as a white boy in the lower middle class.
Education level was accounted for in the study. So that’s not it.
They’d have to correlate for major, grades and institution.
And there are other studies that confound this question. Why, for example, do black law school graduates fail to pass the bar in such high numbers, even when factoring in the law school attended? The law is the law. A lawyer has to know it. So I don’t see cultural bias skewing results.
Re: #243
Note that those Asian American parents of the 1978-1983 birth cohort who were not immigrants themselves were likely descendants of immigrants from before the exclusion era (starting in the 1880s-1920s, relaxing in the 1940s-1965). Such pre-exclusion-era immigrants were probably not heavily selected for education and skills like more recent immigrants, although the act of immigration back then presumably meant self-selection for motivation and risk taking.
Getting back to African American people, the parents of the 1978-1983 birth cohort were at the tail end of generations of legally formalized suppression of educational opportunities and attainment for African American people (of course, the lasting effects of residential segregation and its effects on educational opportunities continued beyond).
Bar passages rates wouldn’t relate in that way to employment rates.
Not passing the bar exam wouldn’t affect your employment as a lawyer? I’m confused.
Bar passage rates definitely affect your employment as a lawyer. Firms typically give you two tries to pass and then out. Those who never pass the bar either do some other job or (inside joke) become mayor of Los Angeles and then run for governor.
???
The Bar Passage Study (BPS) data reveal that 94% of African American students attending one of the 14 law schools classified as elite who take the bar exam pass it, about 80% doing so on their first try.
I have no idea about bar passage rates for anyone, or what study was being referred to earlier. However, choosing statistics from the 14 elite law schools as a data point doesn’t sound representative for anyone. There are hundreds of law schools just in the US, and I would guess that anyone who could get into one of the top law schools is rather exceptional at testing.
I’m sure Tatin refers to the infamous CA bar exam.
The point is the (lack of) disparity between races in those schools. I assume everyone “lower down” does worse @busdriver11 .
I too would like to see some stats. Y’all sound like hardly any black law students pass the bar.
Bar passage rates vary tremendously. In CA, there are a huge range of law schools. Those who are admitted to and attend “good” or “great” law schools tend to have higher pass rates. Many such students also take bar review courses which are an additional help. I was the only person who hadn’t taken the HI bar my firm had hired in a full-time position. I did get a significant raise after passing the bar and being sworn in as an attorney.
Are we really going to go off the rails and just focus on attorneys of different national origins? I didn’t see the study as focusing on that at all.
As an aside, I think I would be very angry if I went to a top law school, worked my butt off, and they hadn’t given adequate preparation to pass the bar.
The study accounted for the education of the parents. The study did not account for the education level of the kids, which would be most relevant to the children’s earnings.