I wasn’t talking about the justification for it or anything, obviously I don’t think that results are everything. Our society now and generally everywhere I’ve seen, the result is what matters to most of the students and what their basis is - all the effort but with all F’s, no one will reward them of anything. </p>
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I’m not sure what this has to do with anything, but the “you’re unique” happens all the time and I don’t think this is the cause for people who feel justified in cheating…</p>
<p>“I wasn’t talking about the justification for it or anything, obviously I don’t think that results are everything. Our society now and generally everywhere I’ve seen, the result is what matters to most of the students and what their basis is - all the effort but with all F’s, no one will reward them of anything.”</p>
<p>But this only extends to the upper grades. In no way is achievement widely emphasized anywhere in lower education. The few pockets of it, e.g. math competitions, science olympiads, are all a very small minority of the educational experience.</p>
<p>“I’m not sure what this has to do with anything, but the “you’re unique” happens all the time and I don’t think this is the cause for people who feel justified in cheating…”</p>
<p>Ah, I forgot to say that the indoctrination of self-esteem leads to feelings of entitlement. For proof, read Twenge’s book. I’m not deferring to her; I’m just saying that the studies are there – and unlike the ones in the article, they’re indisputable. This sense of entitlement…“Why should I be getting an A? I deserve an A without doing this busywork because it’s useless…etc.”</p>
<p>I can see where you’re coming from. I don’t necessarily disagree with everything you’ve said, just a couple minor points I haven’t noticed or differ from what I’ve seen.</p>
<p>And LOL @ you throwing out like a book/author title every other post.</p>
<p>Okay. So let’s say I’m a typical overconfident wildly unrealistic teenager. What do I do to fix it? Do I start cutting myself in anguish? Do I go cry in a corner at my ineptitude? Do I go on a murderous rampage, killing all the teachers who ever told me I’m worth something? Suggestions, please.</p>
<p>That’s the equivalent of something I imagined to be part of the African slave trade experience…which is nonexistent, pretty much. </p>
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…Looking at this, I now understand why we here think that Asians have no life but to study. I won’t even get to her supposedly “daily schedule” that doesn’t even seem the slightest feasible.</p>
<p>i have a bunch of friends who go to this private IB school that is really really small and they really have unrealistic expectations. almost the entire class is applying to ivies and top schools and they all think thhey are going to get in everywhere.
like this one girl is SURE!!! she will get into yale…and like is 99% sure.
it is scary…setting up for heartbreak there.
i try to go with the…i dont have much of a chance strategy because i know how competitive things are. so i am not getting my hopes up</p>
<p>@ Invoyable: But again, that’s a rare case. It’s not like every Korean school (or student) is like that.</p>
<p>@ zfox001: Ugh yeah it’s so hard to see people EXPECTING to get into a school that’s a reach for everyone. Even when they’re pretty amazing, it’s like, how do you get your heart set on a school that nobody can really count on? (I’m trying myself not to fall into that trap right now with my #1 choice…)</p>
<p>i dont know what everyone is talking about with kids havin 4-5 hrs of hw per nite…im in 6 ap classes and barely have any hw…max 1 hr a nite…time management is key and if u can do that u wont have much hw in high school</p>
<p>As a seventeen year old teenager, I think my the average student in my parents’ generation probably did face more rigorous coursework, than today’s average student (though probably not the average CC’er) To be fair though, I wasn’t around then and my perceptions come from personal views of today’s classes and Allan Bloom’s criticisms of education and society in the 80’s book “The Closing of the American Mind.”</p>
<p>When it comes to expectations though, most students at my school expect, and rightly so, to get into some state school. SAT scores aren’t usually very high. My 2110 is generally considered “insanely good.” Everyone around here thinks I have a great shot at really prestigious schools. Personally, because I’ve met other students from private and more competitive schools, well I’ve a more sober view of it, but in my own locality I think parents have higher expectations than students.</p>
<p>“And LOL @ you throwing out like a book/author title every other post.”</p>
<p>I’m throwing out the book of the person who is basically the subject of the article and has literally spent her entire career after declaring a major on this particular issue.</p>
<p>I don’t see what’s the problem with having hopes and dreams. America is a country set up on winning; there’s a winner and the loser gets forgotten. You can’t breathe that down someone’s throat then just tell them “But yeah…it’s hard to get into certain schools so don’t count on it.” Sports teams count on winning, but they go into it knowing there’s a chance they might lose. That’s how it should be in life, you put your best foot into it and try your hardest.</p>
<p>““But yeah…it’s hard to get into certain schools so don’t count on it.” Sports teams count on winning, but they go into it knowing there’s a chance they might lose. That’s how it should be in life, you put your best foot into it and try your hardest.”</p>
<p>But we’re talking about teens who are expecting 60k+ salaries when they start jobs. Those aren’t dreams, those are pathetic delusions.</p>
<p>“Of course, in the higher-level education this is true. But what justifies this? The seeds that are planted in the lower grades. I help out with kindergartners at my church, and every time it’s ‘You are special,’ ‘You are loved,’ ‘You are unique.’ It’s this mentality that leads kids to the sense of entitlement that makes them feel justified in cheating.”</p>
<p>I think the cause of cheating runs deeper than a few empty words of praise. And who honestly takes those compliments seriously?</p>
<p>Well, from what I have always heard, school nowadays is harder, and its alot more competitive. I think that many kids, including myself, spend 5 hrs+ on hw a night, and that should justify hopes for higher ranked schools. I dont think its unrealistic, thogh.</p>
<p>In my experience, for the most part, the kids actually have the most realistic expectations and the parents, GCs, etc. think their kids are going to get in everywhere. Of course, there are exceptions, but that’s the general trend around here.</p>
<p>Also, I certainly have far more HW than my parents ever did…</p>
<p>The real problem is that the minimum requirements to obtain a U.S. High School diploma are actually pretty low by international standards. One can graduate from High School in America having studied Math for example only up to a level that, by European standards, would be comparable to 8th-grade material ! </p>
<p>Some college-bound U.S. students take several AP classes that perhaps could be considered on par with British A-level or German upper Gymnasium curricula, but those students are clearly a minority when seen as a percentage of the total number of High School graduates nationwide. Besides, the availability of AP/honor courses and the quality/rigor of the courses that are actually offered are not uniform across the United States. </p>
<p>What is needed then in the U.S. is a nationwide school leaving qualification which, like British A-levels, the German Abitur, or the French Bac, represents the same level of educational achievement, irrespective of the location of the school where that qualification was taken.</p>