<p>Absolutely Lake, </p>
<p>Its almost like it is OK to beat up your wife, but not your dog.</p>
<p>No, Mr. Vick should have had a suspension and a fine. Prison was over the top for what he did. The NFL comissioner has all kinds of pressure on him by over-the-top animal rights agencies but after spending time in prison and having basically all of his assets liquidated, I believe that he has done more than enough time for his wrongdoings. There have been people who have shot and harmed other PEOPLE (Pac Man) who have gotten less penalties. There have been players who have been caught up in the distribution of hard drugs which could also be traced ultimately to deaths. Im sorry, a person > dog to me. I saw a funny southpark episode that made a parody of the people who hold animal rights above human.</p>
<p>So, if one crook gets over that means we have to let them all get over? How about someone starts saying ‘no more’ to thugs and hoodlums? Why not remind the NFL that they go broke without the fans’ money and that there are limits to what decent people will tolerate or pay for?</p>
<p>
Where did you get this odd idea?</p>
<p>It’s called ethics. I guess it’s something not everyone knows about or cares for.</p>
<p>Vick’s punishment was way out of proportion to the crime. He did not threaten or harm a human being. People who have harmed human beings play in the NFL because they are good at their jobs. Vick did not gamble on NFL games, to our knowledge.</p>
<p>Are we going to invade Spain or Mexico to stop bullfighting? Where does the PETA madness end? Animals are not human beings and cannot be equated with humans.</p>
<p>My values are simple and can be summed up by an example involving cosmetic testing. If offered a choice between a slow agonizing death for every rabbit on the planet vs. one case of dermatitis for one teenage girl I say bye bye bunnies.</p>
<p>The idea that the life of a happy animal has more value than that of a miserable human being is stupid no matter how learned or eloquent its proponet. That is not ethics, that is insanity.</p>
<p>No, it was not BigG. Vick organized and ran a gambling ring for the specific and repeated torment and death of dogs. No one is saying a dog is worth more than a human, but it’s ridiculous to contend that a gambling ring does not break the law or that the deliberate torture of animals does not represent unconscionable behavior.</p>
<p>Look how well it worked out for the Titans (and then Cowboys) to give Pacman Jones chance after chance…
I think Vick was punished and will continue to pay. I am horrified by what he did (anyone who would do that to animals has little respect for life in any form, in my opinion) but he has served his sentence and if a team wants to take a chance on him, I think that should be OK.</p>
<p>
I don’t dispute the ethics behind this statement. I simply question whether, in the actual world, there are significant limits to what even supposedly decent people will tolerate or pay for.</p>
<p>In other words, it’s my opinion that if the NFL were to decide what to do based solely on its business interests, it would reinstate Vick, because he’ll probably make more money for them than he will lose. How many people will there actually be who will refuse to support the team he joins, or who will refuse to buy NFL merchandise? Will it impact significantly on NFL advertising revenue?</p>
<p>Pacman jones had a series (by some accounts up to 10) incidents where the police were involved, most of which, if not all, involved unlicensed use of guns around – or against people. Pacman was clearly a guy who never learned. I personally have no doubt that Vick will never be involved with abuse of dogs again. </p>
<p>The fact is had he not been a NFL star, HE NEVER WOULD HAVE GONE TO JAIL IN THE FIRST PLACE. The time he spent in jail would have been community service, etc.</p>
<p>Again kayf, Vick was not just involved, he set up the gambling ring, he personally ordered the electrocution and drowning of dogs which - his commands are recorded on tape - he said were not mean enough.</p>
<p>This is not a man who made a “mistake”, this is a vicious thug. And for those who say the victims were ‘just dogs’, it has been known for over 20 years now that most serial murderers were also known for cruelty to animals - the link is clinical fact.</p>
<p>As opposed to Pacman Jones, who (allegedly) personally ordered the shooting of men who ****ed him off at a strip club.? How many chances did he get??</p>
<p>If Vick does anything like this in the future, he’ll be gone. I dont think he will.</p>
<p>I agree that Pacman should not have gotten back into the NFL. But I also do not agree with the notion that one injustice means we have to ignore injustice.</p>
<p>Choose you words carefully, MBA graduate. I’d hardly call it an injustice when a man services significant prison time [with no parole], loses nearly all his hard assets $$$ and loses critical years from a profession in which experience and relative youth are highly valued and rewarded. Professional football is his vocation and your argument can’t be enobled by calling it a privilege. Professional sports is a vocation like any other regular, ongoing job is a vocation. He’s not a lawyer or an accountant wherein his a criminal conviction technically undermines his ability to practice. Society doesn’t benefit from barring his re-entry into pro football, as society presumably does benefit when felonious lawyers or accountants or bookeepers are sanctioned, never to return to their former profession. Also, you don’t persuade many people that your position has merit when you say they don’t have ethics. I</p>
<p>If Vick returns to the League, I sure hope it’s not here in Baltimore. The last thing the Ravens need is another criminal. Sure, Ray Lewis and Jamal Lewis paid their debts to society. But they also left their stink on teammates and fans. </p>
<p>It’s no fun being guilty by association. I pity the team and city that picks up Vick. They’re in for years of insults.</p>
<p>It is an injustice, LakeWashington, when a man rightfully convicted of a deliberate plan and execution of a series of criminal actions, organized and criminal, and based on the deliberately cruel torment and death of animals for the amusement of watching them die, should then be given millions of dollars and the implicit approval of society despite his crimes. </p>
<p>It is my contention that professional sports needs to return to where it once was - my father played four years with the Redskins as a second-string defensive tackle (1949-1952), and in those days the off-field conduct of the players was part of the job. Sure, they allowed carousing and drinking but there were limits, and getting convicted and sent to prison ended your career in the NFL. The NFL should return to those standards, and I strongly disagree with your contention that Society does not benefit from barring thugs from privilege and prestige in that arena. All laws, in the end, amount to promoting the welfare of the public, and barring someone who revels in causing needless pain of innocents is precisely what is needed in a decent society.</p>
<p>As for ethics, you are twisting my words (as with the rest of your post), because I did not say that they did not have ethics; I clearly stated that it is ethical to demand that limits and boundaries be applied to the membership of those who, like it or not, are copied by the next generation as role models and icons of acceptable behavior.</p>
<p>You suggest that athletes should be held to a lower standard than lawyers or accountants, but how many 10-year-olds copy what they see accountants do? As a referee in youth and high school sports, I can assure you that whatever is done by an NFL star, will be praised and copied by kids. Therefore, I say it is even more important that monsters like Vick be booted without hesitation or apology.</p>
<p>Just off the AP – Vick reinstated with restrictions.</p>
<p>I support animals, BUT I also support giving him a second chance. I say, anyone who has had a second chance, has asked for their child to have a second chance, etc. should support this. </p>
<p>He was not given a death sentcen.</p>
<p>No one ever said Vick deserved a ‘death sentence’. But a lifetime of working a real job at regular-guy wages would be a better resolution than to glorify Vick in the NFL and shower him with money as if his crimes were nothing important.</p>
<p>MBA Grad said:</p>
<p>“It’s called ethics. I guess it’s something not everyone knows about or cares for.”</p>
<p>Hmmm. It’s my guess that most people would comprehend that statement as the author’s critique that his critics lack ethics.</p>
<p>Reasonable people would take it in context.</p>