<p>annasdad, did you miss your calming, soothing cup of tea this am?</p>
<p>I really doubt that my son and his peers who are CHOOSING to teach in public schools are all exceptions, as you state.
Our son is a brand new teacher and it is yet to be seen if he will want to and be able to cut it on the job. BUT his cumma sum laude undergrad and masters degree are hardly ‘bottom of the barrel’. His friends who are teaching attended public NJ colleges that are competitive/highly competitive and completed what amounts to double majors- education and their academic major. </p>
<p>Maybe things are different in the midwest by you? Your comments don’t match reality here in the northeast. Enjoy your day.</p>
<p>Out of my oldests’ graduating class at a private prep, 1/5 are in education.
They attended colleges like Carleton, Williams & Reed.
Hardly the bottom of the barrel. ;)</p>
<p>( BTW- although they fit the profile of TFA candidates- that was not their route back into the classroom)</p>
<p>I said there are exceptions. But the average person going into public education over the last 40 years has come from the bottom 25% of college grads. That’s not my statistic - it’s from Peter Maag, one of the most respected writers on public schools and their problems. My MIL, who taught for nearly 40 years in one if the wealthiest Chicago suburban districts, says the quality of people who came into the profession her last 20 years was woeful. </p>
<p>I fully expected the outraged replies from teachers and their families. But the proof is in the pudding of the abysmal state of our public education system. And in spite of all the attempts by the teachers to point the finger elsewhere, it comes right back to the quality of the teaching.</p>
<p>Actually it seems that top down edicts from admins has been hurting what teachers are trying to accomplish in the classroom.
For example- the few schools which are not using the Seattle school districts new-new math, are getting strong results- even with a high FRL rate
[Cliff</a> Mass](<a href=“http://cliffmass.blogspot.com/]Cliff”>http://cliffmass.blogspot.com/)</p>
<p>I think ALL of it is required for success: engaged kids, parents, teachers, and school administrators. But maybe I’m just old-fashioned and hopelessly out of sync with modern America.</p>
<p>The quality of teachers also depends on what grade level they are teaching in some states. In my state, like some others, teachers at or above the middle school level can’t major in education. They must major in a content area and become certified. My daughter was a dean’s list student majoring in history and economics, while doing X00 hours of student teaching and working as a teaching fellow. She believes (and I agree with her) that having a serious background in the content area makes for a good teacher. She is working on her master’s now and her first class is what she calls a “fluffy” class that just talks about educational pedagogy and all levels. Turns out my dear, kind daughter has a bias against preschool teachers and thinks they shouldn’t be in the same classroom as people who will teach AP history and economics courses.</p>
<p>Thanks, zoosermom, for saying it way better than I did.</p>
<p>That is the way it works here in NJ and I mistakenly thought that’s the way it was in all states. So, for middle and HS, education majors have the same course requirements in their content area as non teaching majors. THEN they have education credits AND student observations AND a student teaching semester. Then pass a Praxis exam, background check, etc to be certified to teach in public schools in NJ.</p>
<p>Our DS is certified to teach his content area in grades K-12 but the content area requirement is only required for middle and high school level (I believe). He has little patience for anyone trying to teach without a thorough grasp of their ‘stuff’.</p>
<p>Yes, that’s the standard copout of the educational establishment: if only the parents would do our job for us, then we wouldn’t have to.</p>
<p>Except that research clearly shows that (1) by far, the most significant factor in determining student achievement is the quality of the teaching, and (2) the most reliable predictor of teaching quality is the intelligence of the teacher. Yet the huge majority of our teachers are drawn from non-flagship state universities, where the average ACT of the entering freshmen tends to hover around 22, just a point or two above the national average of everyone taking the ACT.</p>
<p>At my daughter’s departmental college graduation, I was stunned to see how accomplished her fellow graduates were. She has won a major award for a curriculum she created, and three of her fellow 7 graduates had serious accomplishments in their fields (not education). I believe all but 1 were dean’s list students (3.75 or above for the entire year) or holders of other academic honors. None was in the bottom 25%. My daughter’s master’s thesis will relate to economics instruction in the urban education setting.</p>
<p>That’s the way it is here in Ontario, for all grades. There are no undergrad education programs here. Students interested in pursuing a career in teaching must have an undergrad degree first then go on to an additional year (or two if you want a master’s) in a grad program. The undergrad curriculum is important and they must have two or three ‘teachables’ which involves a certain number of coursework in those subjects. The year my D, who is an Ivy grad and certainly not the bottom of the barrel!, applied, there were between 5,000-6,000 applicants for 120 spots in her program. Successful applicants typically have an A or B gpa and between 300-400 hrs. of volunteer work in the grades they want to teach. These are kids who are dedicated to the teaching profession, smart kids who had many options other than teaching.</p>
Excellent point! My D had a job offer about an hour ago that she is agonizing over. It’s nice money, a good career path, respect based on her credentials, but it’s not teaching and she’s always wanted to teach. I guess it’s a good dilemma to have.</p>
<p>" said there are exceptions. But the average person going into public education over the last 40 years has come from the bottom 25% of college grads."</p>
<p>A lot of teachers particularly in the elementary schools are women who 40 years ago were usually shuffled into secretarial careers, nursing or teaching. The opportunities didn’t exist the same way as they do today, so to make the above statement is nonsense.</p>
<p>Do those who believe the problem with education is the quality of teachers ALSO believe the quality would improve if we paid them more (attracting others to the profession), and therefore advocate raising teachers’ pay, and therefore want taxes raised to do so?</p>
<p>Personally, I’m in the “teachers can’t fix what happens at home” camp. Unless, of course, as a society we want to take custody of kids who aren’t learning because of inappropriate parenting. Which we certainly don’t.</p>
<p>You may call it nonsense, but it’s supported by the research I cited. Do you have research that shows otherwise?</p>
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<p>Can’t speak for all of us who believe the data that clearly show that the problem with education is the quality of teachers, but speaking for myself, a qualified yes. Simply paying the same people more money to do the same inadequate job won’t solve the problem. I would gladly pay more in taxes (although my kids are no longer in the public school system) if the additional money was used to attract and retain genuinely highly qualified people to teaching. But to do that would also mean a way to get rid of some of the deadwood that currently clogs the teaching ranks.</p>
<p>Teachers do not need to even attempt to fix what happens at home. They have to teach. They have to teach at the level that will enable american kids to be at least in par eith kids from other countries and not lag miles behind. Home has nothing to do with it. It is even possible without any homework, but I agree, homework is a big helper. The k-12 program is completely inadequate, individual teacher can do so much, but they can to some degree. As one example, good teacher will realize that teaching physics in one year is beyond possible, perios. Good teacher will give great foundation for hardest part of physics and will not teach other parts, since he does not have enough in one year to accomplish that. Good teacher will realize that math could be exciting, math class should spark interest in sciences and develop great analytical skills. Bad teacher will give problem sheets where some instructions might read: “Try to guess the answer and plug it in…”, I have seen that with my own eyes and could not believe it.</p>