<p>California has one thing that trumps all–the climate. </p>
<p>Mini, I was actually thinking about high tech and bio tech companies–not child labor. They are now as happy to go to North Carolina or Utah or Idaho where good employess can enjoy the lifestyle and lower COL.</p>
<p>Barrons:</p>
<p>I hope this is true in NoVA. </p>
<p>We’re going to put our home on the market in November or December, as is, it what we’ve been told is a declining market, at the worst time of the year.</p>
<p>“Mini, I was actually thinking about high tech and bio tech companies–not child labor. They are now as happy to go to North Carolina or Utah or Idaho where good employess can enjoy the lifestyle and lower COL.”</p>
<p>They’d still prefer Burma.</p>
<p>Seems to me California has a lot more going for it than climate – it attracts, and will continue to attract in the foreseeable future, both businesses and new residents. For one, it’s one of the intellectual meccas of the nation (Bay Area just won its 3rd Nobel prize in as many days) which in turns creates industry and jobs – there’s reason why the Silicon Valley is south of Stanford/Cal and the Miracle Mile outside of Boston. California has an outstanding and affordable university system. It has astounding natural resources – the only industry that I can think of that DOESN’T exist in California is coal. And are taxes really higher in California than, say, Connecticut? Seems to me, for every reason to criticise California one could come up with a reason to praise it…</p>
<p>tsdad, NOVA is looking weak. I’d prepare to wait a year and lease it out.</p>
<p>In the last few years, more people are leaving California than coming here for the first time. People are tired of being house poor and paying high taxes for a relatively modest lifestyle. As someone who has lived in different parts of the Country, I would live elsewhere if my husband could have an equal job somewhere else. We would have a better house just about anywhere, public schools are better in most states, there’s less traffic and polution just about everywhere.</p>
<p>As for our great public colleges, there is a tremendous budget crunch making classes huge, housing slim and the liklihood of graduating in 4 years low. Grants are few and far between except for the very top students making privates attractive for middle class families who will get some aid.</p>
<p>The only thing we loved was the ever appreciating real estate and that seems to have come to a dead hault. Time to look at the N. Carolina job market!</p>
<p>“I would live elsewhere if my husband could have an equal job somewhere else.”</p>
<p>Isn’t that the crux of the problem? That the well paying jobs are in attractive places which in turn are expensive because they are attractive?</p>
<p>As for cuts in colleges - you think it’s different anywhere else? A degree from a UC - even if a 5 year degree - is still a world-class degree. </p>
<p>Real estate is always up and down, and the down is not limited to California. But I bet it’s still easier to make money on real estate in California – the take may be less these days, but it’ll still be more than the take in North Carolina, for example.</p>
<p>Actually, I don’t agree about a couple of things.</p>
<p>While I’d call a degree from Cal or UCLA world class, I wouldn’t the other UCs. In fact I’m decidely underwhelmed by the employment options facing my friend’s kids graduating from Irvine and Santa Barbara.</p>
<p>Also, there are areas of the country where real estate will appreciate way better than California is likely to in the near future. There was a thread on “liar loans” here recently. As these come to an end, fewer Californians will be able to buy houses and the bubble is likely to stay burst for some time. Employers are leaving the State, many of our jobs are being outsourced, the cut back on illegals is killing agriculture…all in all, I think the California hayday is coming to an abrupt end.</p>
<p>My exceptionally average million dollar house would cost $275K max, in most other areas of the country. It has other benefits, location being one, but it is decidedly unspecial in most ways. Yet, yep, it’s a million dollar baby (used to be 1.2K, but we’ve lost value, as Barrons knows).</p>
<p>My point is, if you lived in that ‘other part of the country’ would your salary (if you had a comparable job) be high enough to pay for a $275K mortgage?</p>
<p>I live in central Denver, where the housing prices are undeniably lower than in California, but the salaries are also dramatically lower than in California, and the job market far less diverse than in California. You get laid off here - good luck to you. (You won’t get the kind of severence package you’d get in California, either.) Now, sure, you sell your CA house you can get something great in CO and something almost-great in central Denver. But that doesn’t help the CO resident who has to live with CO salaries and the fear of another serious economic bust – in CO, they happen about every 20 years due to the largely undiversified economy. And for all the talk about California real estate bust, it’s actually Colorado that has the nation’s highest foreclosure rates – can’t pay even lower mortgage prices if you can’t get a job.</p>
<p>No doubt we’ve had a good go the last few decades job wise in California. However, we’re seeing other parts of the Country become increasingly attractive. Employers are moving out. We could move to the research triangle, for example, and have a far better quality of life. My husband’s company has been begging him to go. Job offers are coming from Texas, NJ, Portland and Seattle, all places we could live much better. With kids in high school, we’ve decided a few more years won’t kill us, or else we’d be gone!</p>
<p>zagat, I agree with you. We lived in So Cal until 1991, and now live in the Boston area. My husband still travels to CA 2 - 3 times a month, and we visit once or twice a year to see family.</p>
<p>In the years since we left, real estate suffered a huge crash (early 90’s) and didn’t really recover until the last couple of years. Even in a Boston suburb, we have a nicer house for comparable cost as my sister in the MB area. And the salaries in the northeast are certainly comparable. I’ve also seen the sprawl, traffic and smog get worse over the years, so I’m not really tempted to move back to So Cal. I could go for the central coast, but probably not the Bay Area either.</p>
<p>An article in yesterday’s local paper gave the results of a recent Census Bureau study on housing costs (including mortgage, taxes, insurance and utilities). The highest cost in the nation was New Jersey. Others that I recall included (in no particular order): Mass, New Hampshire, California, Hawaii, New York. I tried the Census Bureau web site to get the full list but didn’t find it after a cursory look.</p>
<p>It usually comes down to quality of life issues. We live about 20 miles north of Boston, and H works in a different suburb. He takes city/country roads to work and completely avoids Route 128. If we needed to commute to Boston, there is the Train/subway system, which may take a while, but which reduces the aggravations of driving. When our older son had an internship in Cambridge in HS, he took the train and then the T, which worked great for us.</p>
<p>But if we lived in So Cal, H would work either in LA or Orange County. If we lived 20-25 miles from his job, he would probably have a 1 hour commute – unless it rained! 
The Metro link is fine as far as it goes, but I don’t know anyone who uses it to get to work. Even travelling during off-peak hours is no guarantee of arriving at a destination in a reasonable amount of time. When we return home from a trip to CA, it always feels like the pace here is slower and more relaxed. And this is the Boston area!</p>
<p>zagat - have you any idea what the weather is like in the research triangle of North Carolina? (Smile. But the summers are really dreadful.) Or how awful Texas can be (Smile. I hear Austin’s great.)</p>
<p>Actually, I do understand what all of you are saying. It’s just that people have been saying this about California FOR DECADES. Twenty years ago I heard the same arguments from people leaving the state. And somehow the state remains a vibrant intellectual, academic and artistic powerhouse.
And plus, you folks have In 'N Out Burger and two-buck Chuck at every corner. How bad can your life be?</p>
<p>I could see the argument in favor of In 'N Out. But I’m not so sure about the idea of California as an intellectual or artistic powerhouse. I see the east coast as being much stronger in those areas.</p>
<p>New Jersey Tops Nation in Housing Costs</p>
<p>From yesterday’s Star-Ledger:</p>
<p>NJ has the highest income level, education level, auto insurance costs, housing costs…Why do I live here again?</p>
<p>ouch
median home price in San diego is $600,000!
<a href=“http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/housing/2006-06-26-affordable-homes-usat_x.htm[/url]”>http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/housing/2006-06-26-affordable-homes-usat_x.htm</a></p>
<p>All them Calefornians are moving here to Austin - selling their high-priced CA shacks and buying up our $300,000 houses (3000 footers in nice neighborhoods) with cash leftover! Y’all are starting to drive up our market!</p>
<p>So tease us Californians. Does $300K buy you 3000 sq. ft. in good condition with a kitchen from this decade? How much land?</p>
<p>$300K in socal buys you 1200 sq. ft. of densely packed condo in an iffy area with kitchen and single bath from the 70s.</p>
<p>What does a half mill buy in your neck of the woods everyone? A million? Two?</p>