<p>Myos1634: Appropriate alternatives? I’m not against it because I’m just not sure what it means. Who decides what is “appropriate” for any one particular student or is Appropriate Alternatives the name given to the course? Are there teachers trained in teaching appropriate alternatives to each and every student? Do schools have the resources to address each student’s appropriate alternatives? I am really not trying to make light of your post. We’re talking about a difficult issue (requiring Alg2 as HS req) with no one answer fits all kids. But if kids twho struggle in Alg2 hen fail their appropriate alternatives, then what? Do kids still receive a diploma? Does a diploma have meaning or does it just become a “participation” trophy?</p>
<p>Please excuse my typo: the last sentences should read: But if kids who struggle in Alg2 then fail their appropriate alternatives, then what? Do kids still receive a diploma? Does a diploma have meaning or does it just become a “participation” trophy? </p>
<p>The class on personal finances mentioned above requires logic and quantitative reasoning, yet it does not require the specific type of abstract thinking Algebra2 requires. Can students fail that class? Sure, if they don’t do any homework and come to class high, but otherwise the content is accessible to anyone who can read and makes the effort.
So, the difference is between a level that can be reached by all and a level that cannot (unless it is diluted beyong recognition.)
In my opinion, if the choice is “personal finances” or “totally diluted pseudo-algebra 2 class”, the former is the better option.
Let us not pretend a high school diploma is a certificate of high level studies. The value of the diploma varies depending on content - what colleges call “rigor of curriculum”. There’s a difference between APScholar and HS Diploma, between IB and HS Diploma.</p>
<p>
Well I don’t know who appointed you the decider of what is or isn’t beautiful, or capable of making life better, MYOS, but I reject your claim to be the definitive authority on that. </p>
<p>Beyond that, what I have to say violates the TOS.</p>
<p>High school is way too late to play catch up.
If they want increased academics in high school, they need to support that curriculum in elementary school.</p>
<p>sylvan: you can say that math makes life more beautiful/better/easier to understand, opens yourself to new ways of thinking or to others, improves your communication skills, makes you aware of belonging to a specific country with its diverse cultures and values, etc (all goals of a high school education as stated by most States), but you can’t argue that Algebra2 specifically does.
You can also argue that it’s necessary to pass Algebra2 to be college-ready or that intelligent students all have the intellectual means of understanding Algebra2, but in that case the argument shouldn’t be that all students should pass Algebra2 but that all collegebound students or students with a certain intelligence level or background and no disability should pass Algebra2.
It’s quite different from a blanket “Algebra2 requirement”.</p>
<p>For kids who are never going to attend college, I think a good practical math class would be a more useful option. But in a minimum requirement situation, you’re likely to get a practical math class that is about as challenging, and as mathematical, as your typical high school health class. </p>
<p>One reason not to let go of algebra2 is that many people would like to feel that any high school diploma is preparation for attending college, and would like to think that any student can still attend college. Some who seem not cut out for college while in high school may develop an interest or a need or just maturity later in life. While some other countries make the college or not decision in middle school, Americans are very averse to “tracking” people.</p>
<p>I wonder why it’s always Math that’s brought up in these types of discussions, and never English, even though most high schools require 4(!!) years of English. I personally had a much tougher time in my English classes than my Math classes, I can’t imagine I am the only one.</p>
<p>In Math, there’s a reasonably clear line of demarcation between what’s taught in different courses. In any given school system, if you ask the experts when a student should be able to solve quadratic equations, they should be able to pinpoint the course during which this skill should be mastered.</p>
<p>In English, not so much. It’s harder to identify specific skills and knowledge that should be mastered in 10th grade English vs. 12th grade English. I don’t even know what the skills are – to me, English class consisted simply of reading a lot of books that I didn’t like, most of which involved people committing suicide (have you ever noticed how much suicide there is in the books kids have to read in high school?), and not understanding what I was supposed to get out of the experience. </p>
<p>Obviously, I had more trouble with English than Math, just like you, Warbrain. </p>
<p>It’s actually not necessary to water down the content in Algebra 2 to make it comprehensible. Very good instructors using somewhat non-standard (and more effective) methods can make it as comprehensible as a language course. The reality is that the operations of Algebra are highly formalized presentations of operations that people use on a day to day basis.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>This is what community colleges, with their extensive remedial offerings, are for. A student who didn’t complete all the work necessary for admission to a four-year college in high school can make up the deficiencies later at a community college. </p>
<p>Isn’t that better than setting up the system so that students who are not “college ready” cannot graduate from high school?</p>
<p>^ I think this is the question: what does a high school degree mean? Does it mean ready for college? Or does it mean possessing a certain set of skills and knowledge? </p>
<p>Reading the paper the other day, I learned that dropping Algebra II isn’t a done deal and that the requirement may be substituted with a “practical Algebra” course. I also was reminded that we have three diplomas in Texas. The basic one doesn’t require Algebra II and sounds more like what I remember from high school. About 20% of Texans graduate with the basic degree. (I was surprised the number was so low.) This minimum degree doesn’t qualify grads for automatic admission at Texas colleges, however. Despite the existence of the basic degree, people argue that kids aren’t finishing high school because of the rigor currently required. </p>
<p>And as a reminder about what started all this rethinking, Texas high school students had to pass fifteen end of course exams to graduate. That number has been reduced to five. </p>
<p>We also have two levels of high school degree; the lower one has fewer credit requirements and only 3 years each of math and science. The vast majority of employers won’t care if kids know anything about logarithms. But they will care very much if the kid is the sort of person who is willing to apply themselves to solve problems and learn what needs to be learned to do so, is smart enough to actually succeed in this and has demonstrated the personal responsibility and work ethic to complete assignments on time and regularly attend class. Getting through high school simply demonstrates some minimum level of competence in these areas. If algebra2 is too hard, will it be too hard for them to figure out how much lumber is needed for the next job?</p>
<p>Perhaps Algebra2 is different in your school system, but in mine, it’s a class that includes abstract math in preparation for precalculus and calculus. There’s a watered down version but it’s not considered “real” Algebra2 in that it doesn’t allow students to proceed on to Precalc and Calc. It fulfills the math requirement for graduation and I think it’s called Math III and IV. But there’s more than work ethic to it, really. I guess you’ve never met kids who are smart but at age 16 are working on understanding ratios and ordering (ie., bigger or smaller?) and having real trouble with it… (I do mean smart, as in, advanced in everything except math).</p>
<p>I haven’t read the whole thread, but I am wondering what the standard path is for math. My daughter will be taking algebra II as a freshman and is only one year ahead in math. So, how does Algebra II not fall under a standard math curriculum? I am not trying to be disingenuous. I truly am curious. Even if you are not placed in an advanced math class, wouldn’t you take Algebra II as a sophomore? I do know that in our state, four years of math are required to graduate; so, I don’t know how you would get around taking Algebra II.</p>
<p>Your D is two years ahead by most standards.
Typically it goes (for the average student, starting in 9th grade)
Alg I → Geo → Alg 2 → Pre-calc (and/or Stats)-> calculus Sometimes there’s a trig class in there, too… sometimes it’s combined with Alg 2, sometimes with pre-calc, sometimes stands on its own. </p>
<p>Same here. Almost all kids take Algebra I and Geometry, then the ones who are weaker in math can take something called Math Models. They can take it and be done with math if they are pursuing the minimum diploma, or take it before Algebra II if they are after one of the other two diplomas. Math Models looks like a practical math class.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>She is actually two years ahead of the standard sequence in most US high schools. If she is only one year ahead of the standard sequence in her high school, her high school is probably an elite one by US standards.</p>
<p>Standard math sequence in the US:</p>
<p>9th grade: algebra 1
10th grade: geometry
11th grade: algebra 2
12th grade: trigonometry/precalculus
college frosh: calculus</p>
<p>Okay. Now I get it. My daughter is currently in 7th grade and taking Algebra I and will take geometry next year. In our local public high school, taking Algebra II is considered one year ahead if a student is on the honors/AP track.</p>
<p>I don’t know why they wouldn’t do away with Geometry instead. I’d sooner see that one get the axe.</p>