<p>I wouldn’t even have thought of the ACT if it hadn’t been for this forum. Hardly anyone in mainstream college-prep Texas takes ACT. Turns out it can be a GOOD thing (as Cur will attest).</p>
<p>Correct, northeastmom, but “back in the day” (like when I was applying to colleges), many colleges wanted just the SAT or just the ACT. In Texas, most all of the colleges wanted the SAT. The only one that I can remember requiring the ACT was Baylor. Since then, most colleges will accept either test, but you will still find the students in a particular state preferring one test over the other. I think there was a thread some time back where we “identified” which state’s students preferred which test.</p>
<p>Texas for the most part does have a terrible public education system especially in the big cities like Dallas, Houston and San Antonio. There are some exemplary districts in the suburbs of these cities but they have had there share of financial hurdles to overcome to even try to remain competitive with even the lesser private schools.</p>
<p>Texas had for many years a significant issue that impacted its top school districts ability to continue to excel. It was referred to as “Robin Hood Funding” because the State literally took money from the wealthier (read white/growing tax base) school districts and apportioned those funds to the poorer school districts in the Rio Grande Valley and elsewhere to level the playing field. The net result was that the poorer districts still faired no better on standardized testing and the school districts whose funding was cut were often forced to cut things like band, choir and other fine arts programs or reduce the size of their already limited TAG programs. The parents at many schools rallied and created big time fund raisers like those at the private schools to try to prevent cuts in these programs, in other cases they raised the price of admission to athletic events and created super sized “booster clubs” to replenish the athletic coffers that had also been diminished.</p>
<p>In the end,the program was an abject failure and was recently repealed after much litigation and money spent on both sides of the issue. The damage done to many school districts may in the long term be irreparable since many top teachers fled to private schools almost as fast as their top students did.</p>
<p>It was interesting because when George Bush was running for President the first time around he ran ads in states outside Texas ( I saw them when visiting family in Ohio) heralding his accomplishments in higher education while Governor of Texas…he wouldn’t dare run those ads IN the state because they were not only a fabrication but out and out dishonest.</p>
<p>Our Governor is the weakest Governor of all 50 states (by legislation) and in fact the Lt Governor, Railroad Commissioner and the head of the GLO (Goverment Land Office) have more true power. Our Legislators only meet every other year…with decisions like Robin Hood Funding we’re thankful for that and wish it was every three or four years!</p>
<p>semi related topic</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/07/washington/07neil.html?ref=education[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/07/washington/07neil.html?ref=education</a></p>
<p>WASHINGTON, Nov. 6 — The inspector general of the Department of Education has said he will examine whether federal money was inappropriately used by three states to buy educational products from a company owned by Neil Bush, the president’s brother.</p>
<p>The top private schools in Texas are among the best in the country. St. Mark’s in Dallas, St. John’s in Houston, Hockaday in Dallas, Episcopal in Houston…</p>
<p>bandit:</p>
<p>doesn’t the top 10% rule also DIScourage kids from taking advanced HS courses, bcos it might hurt their rank?</p>
<p>^^-^^</p>
<p>Not if rank is based on weighted scores. :)</p>
<p>Depends on the weighting.</p>
<p>D has friends at Barnard from Hockaday and raves about their preparation and their school (and their acquaintances, Haha.)</p>
<p>Like in any large state, there are huge variables. I don’t think ACT scores are a good measure since it’s usually an afterthought here compared to SAT. Mine and most of their friends stuck with the “devil-you-know” sequence of PSAT, SAT, SAT II Friends who did take the ACT were often searching for a friendlier test. (Frequent encounter at our school: guidance counselor meets with student, glances at transcript, smiles. Glances at SAT score, smile fades a bit. Pause. “Have you thought about taking the ACT, lots of students find they do better on that”)
Texas students do score slightly below average on the SAT. I don’t know how that compares with other huge, diverse states.
My kids have been in both public and private high schools. I think the advanced classes at the best publics really do rival their pricy private rivals. Dragongirl2 was not even in the top 10% of her class but had 4’s or 5’s on 10 AP exams. If you skimmed off the top kids you could easily have a school like Hockaday or St. Marks. The problem is the bottom half. Are they not doing well because the school is failing them or because Mom and (if he’s there) Dad aren’t getting them in bed on time, reading aloud, turning off the TV, etc. from toddler days? You are comparing apples and acorns.</p>
<p>1/3 of the graduates from my high school go to community college…
the college reps that i see most often at my school are from the community colleges…</p>
<p>its kind of sad.</p>
<p>(i live in a houston surburb, btw)</p>
<p>fireflyscout - your post made me feel reeeaaaaly old! Back in my day, will be 30 years ago next May when I graduated from high school… St. Agnes Academy in Houston. Anyway, it was obviously a prep school, but I think the majority of my classmates took both the SAT and ACT.</p>
<p>What I think is interesting is that when you look at the publication that ranks public schools across the country (can’t remember which one it is, maybe U.S. News and World Report, or Newsweek), I was amazed at how many of those top tier schools are in Texas. Now I know some of them are magnet public schools, but I was very surprised to see so many. I know there are pockets of outstanding school districts, but I’ve too, also heard that parents don’t necessarily pick the best school, because it can create a disadvantage for their kid to make the top 10%.</p>
<p>We live in a northern suburban Houston public school disctrict. Public education is very good to excellent. I think it is really a mixed bag as to quality of education, demographics probably play as big a role as any.</p>
<p>I grew up in Texas, and things have changed some, but I would want to dispel one notion that seemed to creep in, which is that the Public system is beign abandoned for ‘privates’ I just dont see it, I looked for soem data, but didnt find it. With that said, there is a huge game of moving into (or out of) some areas for schools, so it has a similiar effect. Just wouldnt want the wrong image out. IMHO</p>
<p>My S is at West Point, and was very well prepared for the academic rigors (and by personality for the physical and emotional rigors).</p>
<p>I am standing by Marite’s opinion. I had my kids in the best private school in my town for 6 years and finally, furious, I took them out and placed them in a public system. It is not perfect, but it is tons better than private, expensive school they had attended before. Mind you, both of my kids are quite smart, one tops the chart, the other is in the top 1%. They were absolutely not served in a private system, that catered to mediocre children of affluent parents.
Like I said, now is not perfect either, but at least educators are listening to me and are trying to accomodate my kid’s needs.
Can’t help to wonder though. Texas is so low? Look at Mathcounts competition - big Texas win. My young daughter is doing an online program
[Beestar.org</a> - Math and Reading for Kids](<a href=“http://www.beestar.org%5DBeestar.org”>http://www.beestar.org) from Sugarland Texas, and the math curriculum at least is more advanced that in our state.
I don’t want to take a beating here, but when I moved to the US 10 years ago and was totally unaware of the educational system (very different from canadian), my college professors friends unanimously agreed that private elementary schools in this country are serving the needs of rich, mediocre students. I had no idea at that time, I worried about daycare, but throught the years my experince seems to support that statement.</p>
<p>(yeee, my 100 post)</p>
<p>Kelowna- I don’t think you can generalize that way about private schools. Admissions to the top Texas private schools are EXTREMELY competitive- even in the lower grades. Money may get a couple of kids spots, but I can assure you that most of the kids are the best of the best. The level of reading and writing was amazing, and my kids had (with a couple exceptions) outstanding teachers who challenged and motivated the kids. Just check out the college matriculations if you think these are “mediocre children”.</p>
<p>Kelowna and MomofWildChild are both right in my opinion. Our private school was very selective. Pre-K kids went for interviews and were expected to know their ABC’s, numbers, colors, and sit still for the 20 minute interview. If admitted to one of the rare opennings after kindergarten, there was more extensive testing (my son’s case). Even getting called to take the test was an “honor”. The girl next door, the daughter of a prominent Hispanic physician, never got called for an interview/test, but ended up as a top student at the local public school. My son’s friend got called in after his dad was appointed to public office. He left the interview in tears after they asked him several times to read a passage “faster”. He didn’t get in either.</p>
<p>Once in, I expected this amazing education and it wasn’t there. They had the “cream-of-the-crop” and that made most teachers’ jobs very easy. Of course, some teachers were better than others. I have no doubt that most of these kids will end up at good colleges (UT seems to be #1 choice), but it is due to genetics and family support, not the elite school they attended.</p>
<p>Fwiw, I think there is a great danger in reaching for sweeping conclusions based on incomplete data. As other posters suggested the ACT in Texas is a mixed bag: only 29% of students take it and it’s doubtful that it was a “known” process (and a loophole happy one to boot) for the majority of competitive students when the numbers were compiled. Further, one needs to scratch the surface behind the attention-grabbing numbers to uncover that the alarming statistics (18% success rate on ALL areas) are mostly impacted by the science scores and the lower performance of minorities who are pushed to take the “easier” ACT (that supposedly matches their HS curriculum.) Inasmuch as Texas does NOT perform very well on the tests described in the report, it would be a mistake to believe that the nation is enjoying great success. The sad truth is that the Nation that was “at risk” in the 80s is still very much at risk, especially when looking at the rigor of our programs. Simply stated, we are NOT preparing the next generations very well and the blame can be placed squarely on the excuses we continue to make for a system that remains closed to open competition. With 90% of our K-12 education in the (poorly named) public sector, it’s not hard to see that efforts should be directed at eradicating the organizations and people responsible for our current failures. Fat chance to see that happening any time soon, especially in the current political climate! </p>
<p>Turning to private schools, let’s remember that data is hardly the plural of anecdotal evidence. </p>
<p>For starters, not all private schools are the same, nor are the public schools. Speaking about Dallas, you could travel a couple of miles in one direction and uncover vast differences. Almost next to each other, you might find a public school that consistently leads the nation in AP participation (and success) and an abject high school that exhibits all the failures of the over-politicized and racially divided system that is all too known in Texas. Similar differences can be found among the private schools. For every tony school such as Greenhill, St Mark’s, or Hocakaday, you’ll find a parochial that struggles to survive in an environment that is openly hostile to anything but secular education. And in between, you’ll find plenty of grey … with schools offering a competitive curriculum at a slightly more affordable rate all the way down to watered down offerings at very reasonable rates. In other words, a bit for everyone! This said, it would be quite an error to believing the students --and faculty–are interchangeable. The pecking order is well-established, as the waiting lists clearly indicate. For many families, Easter and Spring Break are nervous times as admissions’ results come in … and I am not talking about college applications! </p>
<p>Are all experiences the same? Of course not, how could they be?</p>
<p>My kids both went through Dallas private schools through 10th grade (daughter) and 8th grade (son). They moved on to boarding schools and were at the very top of their class with respect to skills and complete academic competency. They both were the very top in writing ability. They both went to highly selective colleges and continued to excel. D graduated cum laude from Rice and S is doing very well at his school. Many of their Dallas classmates moved on to highly selective colleges such as Stanford, Williams, MIT and the Ivys. Yes, UT is a big draw for financial reasons and because it offers an excellent education. Many of the kids are accepted into the Plan II honors program.<br>
My son spent a few months in our local public school at the end of 10th grade. I can not even describe how horrible and sub-par it was, and this was one of the better Dallas public schools (not saying much, I realize). My husband and I both attended public schools, so I’m not an education snob, but there is simply no comparison in Texas between public and private schools. I’m sure the lesser private schools may not offer quite the same education, but the good public schools (and there are some, even in Texas) were few and far between.</p>
<p>MomofWildChild-It sounds like your private school prepares students well. I am especially happy to see that students are choosing colleges outside of Texas. That rarely happened with our private school grads. My oldest went to public kindergarten, private first-fifth grade, and then back to public. Public was good if you stayed on the accelerated tract, but what I liked the most was the fact that it was more like the real world. It wasn’t all rich, white kids anymore.</p>
<p>The only people I know that took the ACT were the people that wanted to go to college in Oklahoma. The vast majority took the SAT.</p>
<p>Mom-of-WildChild: My DD will be graduating from one of the poor smaller school districts and just received an early acceptance from the Air Force Academy. I know that she is above normal but she would be anywhere. Her twin sister has chosen to attend a small private school in Texas, not a competitive, but outstanding in the field she has chosen to study. Many of their friends will be going to MIT, Rice, T A&M, UT, TCU etc. Texas public schools are what we as parents make of them.</p>