Texas officials: Schools should teach that slavery was ‘side issue’ to Civil War

I don’t see how teaching what the politicians of the Confederate States wrote in 1860 and 1861 has now been termed “Northern propaganda.” Actually, having lived in the south, I do see how, much in the same way I see how, in biology curriculum in Texas, creationism is “truth” and evolution is “a bunch of Northern propaganda.”

The seven seceded states were not lured back in by the Corwin Amendment because they could count - it takes 3/4 of the states to ratify it for it to become Amendment 13, and with 11 slave states and 20 non-slave states, they knew it would never become law.

"I don’t see how teaching what the politicians of the Confederate States wrote in 1860 and 1861 has now been termed “Northern propaganda.”

And you guys wonder why the rest of the country laughs at some of you. This is why. Right here. You can’t even cop to the actual own reasons given for the secession. Why don’t you have the guts to say - “yes, the south seceded /. fought for the right to own slaves? It was wrong but it was also a different era. Thankfully we have changed in our views since then.” See how easy that is?

In the same article linked in the first post is this:

I wanted to know more about what these textbooks leave out about the years of institutional racism that black people had to fight against to be treated as Americans in their own country, but all the articles focused on the slavery/states’ rights issue.

To downplay or practically negate the facts of KKK, Jim Crow, pervasive racial discrimination in housing, hiring, even programs for veterans, is even more insidious imo than the blurring of the lines regarding the states’ rights/slavery motivation for the Civil War.

I wonder how much they teach about the thousands of black people who were lynched until well into the 20th century (the majority concentrated in Mississippi, Alabama, Texas, Georgia, and Louisiana). Probably nothing. Personally, I think everyone who defends Jim Crow or the Klan or denies the pervasiveness of anti-black racism in this country after the Civil War – never mind those who trivialize the word “lynching” by using it every time someone is criticized by more than one person at a time – should be required to view each and every one of the photographs at http://withoutsanctuary.org/main.html.

Well, some people don’t want to acknowledge history that includes “victims” ya know.

I would encourage the teaching of this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/28/books/review/when-affirmative-action-was-white-uncivil-rights.html?_r=0

Or, if a whole book is too much too take on, perhaps just cover a section on how the GI Bill was applied to black veterans compared to white veterans. Pervasive, institutionalized racism went way beyond separate laundry units and water fountains in the South and that is not a topic most of us were taught in history and we should have been.

I think those issues stem from the same place. There’s a reason why people want to downplay the role of slavery or obscure it with a euphemism like “state’s rights” (since when are kidnapping, rape, torture, and murder ‘rights’??) I wouldn’t be surprised if the same people who downplay the role of the KKK in the antebellum period are also behind trying to minimize the discussion of slavery in the history books.

I understand where they’re coming from; no one wants to think anything bad about their ancestors, but making the Civil War about some abstract philosophical disputes about the role of the federal government is silly. It’s not honest and does not reflect what people who were involved in the actual conflict were saying and thinking at the time. You might as well teach kids that the Revolutionary War was caused because the British were angry that the colonists were squandering perfectly good tea by dumping it in the harbor.

@toowonderful, if the North was willing to fight, there was pretty much no way for the South to win, Lincoln or no Lincoln. This is why some folks call the American Civil War the first modern war, because it was the first war where brute industrial might rather than generalship or battlefield maneuvers or battlefield gallantry was the decisive factor that won the war.

BTW, note that the North did draft, but I believe most Union troops were volunteers. Note also that the Confederacy drafted as well, and towards the end, became more authoritarian towards its citizens than the Union ever became.

You just have to read some history to discover how horrifying & disgusting some people were. For instance, in Memphis, a middle-class shopowner couple were lynched* by a white mob for the sin of running a competing shop that stole business from white shop owners. Certainly, lynching occurred in the North as well (in race riots of the '20’s), but that doesn’t excuse the huge number in the South.

*And why do we use a different term just because of race instead of calling the victims tortured and murdered? Often, they were doused in gasoline and set ablaze.

Slavery and lynching were the first forms of terrorism against Americans in the US.

@Torveaux, almost a third of southern families owned slaves: http://www.civilwarcauses.org/stat.htm

It wasn’t just practiced by a tiny minority of southern whites.

Also, plenty of Confederate soldiers (about half) came from families or households that owned slaves: http://deadconfederates.com/2011/04/28/ninety-eight-percent-of-texas-confederate-soldiers-never-owned-a-slave/

@purpletitan - there were a fair number of southerners who owned slaves, but only a small % were plantation owners (with dozens of slaves- could go up into hundreds) which was the apex of southern society. “Most” slave owners owned a much smaller number. (Less than 10) I’m not saying it’s “better” to own a smaller #, but still. It was also possible to pay for an “exemption” from serving in the military (in both the north and south) leading to the common expression it was “a rich man’s war and a poor man’s fight”. As for draconian measures in society- remember that President Lincoln suspended habeas corpus (and several other parts of the constitution) via executive order during the war.

Historians would debate the Crimean War vs the Civil War as the 1st “industrialized” conflict. Most (that I have read) would probably agree however that it was the 1st “total” war- where an industrialized nation (at least in the case of the Union) shifted their production capacity away from civilian towards military production.

Around 10% of the Union forces (by end of the war) were drafted. Lots of them were recent immigrants (esp Irish) The government offered a $$ bonus for men who enlisted - which helped drive up numbers of those volunteering. The confederate army was somewhere between 20-25% draft. About halfway through the war the south made men between 18-50 eligible for draft, and if drafted, you were required to serve for duration of the war. BUT remember- states didn’t HAVE to accept that law - b/c it’s a confederacy…

One of the largest problems the south had in terms of fighting was that a large % of the males living in the south couldn’t fight…they were slaves. At the VERY end of the war- southern governments began discussing and organizing “colored” units. (As opposed to 180,000 blacks who served in the Union forces) but not much came of it. There were some slaves sent to war with their masters or were used for manual labor by the confederate military.

@toowonderful, yep, the Confederacy was outmanned in almost every regard (besides maybe officer talent, but being a modern total war, that didn’t matter as much).

I’m not sure why a distinction needs to be made between plantation owners and other slave owners. It’s clear that a significant portion of the Confederate Army had a vested stake in perpetuating the institution of slavery (even if they weren’t plantation owners).

Reading the posts on here, you get an idea of why the history of the civil war is muddled. Saying slavery was a side issue is quite frankly whitewashing the reality, that slavery was a major issue of the civil war. The idea that slavery was dying is problematic (two economists won the nobel prize in that field not long ago, for showing it wasn’t dying). It is true that in the ‘old south’ , they made a lot more money selling slaves than in growing crops (In a biography of Washington, they quote him back in the late 18th century, that having slaves was costing him money, that the cost of maintaining slaves wasn’t worth it). The money was made, though, selling slaves into new markets, which was the big, contentious battle of the 19th century, the expansion of slavery. Even with the missouri compromise, those making money in the slave trade were not happy, they wanted slavery expanded to all new territories, which anyone with half a brain can figure out why, because it was very, very lucrative to sell slaves into new markets. Slavery was dying in the old south in terms of agriculture, but the fact is that outside the 'old south, it was thriving.

States rights were invoked because the south saw slaves as property, and felt that the states had the right to determine where property should be sold, and some used the full faith and credit clause to argue that states banning slaveholding were denying that .

Yes, the South was angry about the Tariffs, the north to feed their mills and such wanted southern raw goods (cotton, lumber, sugar, other things), the South wanted to sell the goods on the open market, to England, at better prices than they could get up north, and there was a legitimate grievance there. However, the south never even gave negotiations a chance, Lincoln took office in March, 1861 and it wasn’t long after that the states seceded…and the debate over secession started before Lincoln was elected, but took fire afterwords, because despite the fact that Lincoln made clear abolitionism wasn’t something he was looking to promote, the southern states assumed he was going to try and abolish slavery, so that tells me that slavery was a major issue. Later on in the war, Lincoln made only two demands of the south, in terms of ending the conflict, and that was allegiance to the union and the end of slavery, and the confederacy refused those terms.

It also is unknown whether the Corwin amendment would have passed or not, the fact that there were more non slave states wouldn’t necessarily mean it would go to defeat. The reality is that most states, even those where abolitionist sentiment were strong, would not want to sacrifice the union for slavery, and it is possible that the Corwin amendment would have passed. simply to try and preserve the union. Common history has made this gigantic pitch about the abolitionist north and the evil slave holding south, which is as wrong as the common position from folks down south that it was all ‘states rights’, if to make a choice between slavery being legal and the dissolution of the union, the legislatures in those states, and the people in congress, might likely have voted for it.

Some of the issues of the civil war were also cultural. Whether or not a third of the families down south owned slaves (which means 2/3rd’s did not, a large majority), the reality of the south is that the power was based in the well off planter class, who saw themselves as aristocracy, blue bloods,it was a de facto aristocracy where the well off landowners controlled most of the power (and voting was based on property ownership, and I seem to recall that you needed to have property above a certain level, and it was not a small amount). To them (Bruce Catton wrote about this, as did James McPherson) the northerners were crude industrialists, the population a combination of recent immigrants and crude common farmers, and part of the civil war wasn’t just slavery, but also, at least in the opinion of some historians, maintaining the privilege and power of a de facto landed aristocracy, they feared what they saw in the north (in some cases , with some real world cases, the political boss system like Tammany Hall and such), with ‘mob rule’ and so forth.

Saying it was all about slavery, with the heroic north wanting to abolish it and the south wanting to keep it is factually not correct, but saying slavery was not a major issue if not the primary issue is also just as equally wrong. Slavery was a major issue, if not the main issue, and it manifested itself in several ways, if it didn’t play out to the traditional narrative.

As far as why the soldiers fought, especially those who had no slaves and were very much hurt by slavery economically, Shelby Foote I think did the best job documenting it, most of them felt like they had to fight for their country, for their place, I don’t know how much slavery itself influenced them as much as feeling like it was a duty.The planter class also did a major PR effort, they told the non slaveholders/less well off folk “you are one of us, you are a proud son of the south, descendents of the aristocracy” and it was pretty effective in getting them to fight for something that in a sense, hurt them (ie slavery, assuming it was a major factor).

There is a lot of revisionism, there have been politicians and school boards that have promoted the idea that slavery wasn’t so bad, that “x thousands of slaves fought for the confederacy”, so it couldn’t have been that bad (leaving out that happened in the latter part of the war, when some southern states offered slaves who fought their freedom if they fought for the south), or that 180,000 black soldiers fought for the union, many of them escaped slaves…in many ways, it is kind of a retelling of the “song of the South’s” version of slavery, happy slaves singing in the cotton fields.

As far as racism goes, neither north nor south had a monopoly on that. Many in the north who fought to end the civil war were fearful of black slaves being freed (part of the cause of the draft riots were that Irish immigrants, besides having to fight while the rich paid someone to take their place, was the fear of black ex slaves bringing down wages; it is telling that during the draft riots targets of the mobs rage were things like orphanages for black kids, black run businesses, black houses and so forth). The difference between the south and north has been that in the south, it was a lot more overt; the south had jim crow, legalizing segregation or more importantly, mandating it, while in the north, it was simply part of the landscape. In the cities, blacks tended to live in certain areas, were often not allowed to rent or own in areas other than ‘black districts’, that is the reality. While lynching was not common in the north (other than if you classify, for example, Indiana as being in ‘the north’, where lynchings were common) the fact is that the north had no stomach to try and pass anti lynching laws, and didn’t actively go after it until the civil rights era.

We don’t have to guess at the causes of the Civil War. The seceding states recorded – at the time – what their grievance was. In no uncertain terms.

Georgia:

Mississippi:

South Carolina:

Texas:

Virginia:

It seems pretty clear to me what the issue was.

http://www.civilwar.org/education/history/primarysources/declarationofcauses.html#South_Carolina

@purpletitan:
The south’s hope of winning was not on outright military victory, but rather on the kind of Fabian victory that the US did during the revolutionary war, or what ended up happening to the US in Vietnam, basically to fight a war of attrition, basically keep the North in the war until the will to fight died and they sued for peace (it was basically what the 1864 election hinged upon, McClellan wanted to do exactly that). I wish I could remember the title, but there was a book written back in the early 1990’s that said that Lee was the wrong military leader, that unlike his Virginian predecessor, Washington, he kept trying to fight outright military actions, like Antietam and Gettysburg, rather than taking the fabian strategy that Washington (reluctantly) adopted in the revolution. Had Lee’s and the South’s strategy been that, had they avoided the major battles and just kept the North and got them tired of the war, they had a possibility of winning. Trying to win an outright war, and not having the support of Britain they had hoped for, the South had little chance of winning.

@musicprnt, not sure how well a Fabian strategy would have worked when Grant and Sherman were cutting the Confederacy apart and striking deep in to its heart in the West.

@purpletitan:
As it played out, I won’t disagree, but by that point it was too late. Lee’s aggressive strategy in the first couple of years of the war cost the south a great deal, Antietam was costly to both sides (and if McClellan hadn’t been the general he was, and Pinkerton the likely southern sympathizer I suspect he was, Lee could have lost his army there, much the same way the war could have ended in the Peninsula campaign if McClellan didn’t decide to play God).Gettysburg set the die as to what happened, that Battle firmed up support in the north (that, and the victory at Vicksburg), and it was after that that Sherman and Grant basically put the torch to the Confederacy.

But picture this: If Lee hadn’t gotten involved in the massive battles, if he didn’t continuously try to invade the north, but rather fought the kind of actions Washington did in the Revolution, imagine what would happen. One of the most effective tactics the Southern armies used were continual feints towards Washington DC, every time they did that the military reacted and pulled troops back to protect the capital. Forrest and his men were famous for that, they used calvery to stage attacks on Union forces then pull back, and it was very effective. Think about what a war like this would look like to people up north, as it was by 1862, because of the seeming lack of victories, people already were tired (the emancipation proclamation was a political document, designed to generate enthusiasm for the fight). If instead of outright battles (like Antietam, that was costly to both sides and the like), if all you had was skirmishes, rearguard actions, if the northern Army spent all its time chasing ghosts, with nary a victory to show, what would public opinion have been like by 1863? To have this war going on with no glorious battles, with only people dying, would they be enthusiastic, or would it look like a war without end?

The reality of the civil war was it turned very unpopular, as it went on year by year a lot of people wanted to sue for peace, and it wasn’t until really Gettysburg and Vicksburg that popular support starting increasing again IMO, a war without victories, no matter how much you argue it is a moral victory, grows tiring after a while. Think about Iraq, where a ‘decisive military victory’ was followed by a drawn out conflict against a shadow enemy, and how unpopular that war became very soon after they said it was over…

@musicprnt, well, the Union would have still won in the West and won at Vicksburg regardless of what Lee did. The blockade would still have squeezed the Confederacy (remember that Lee invaded the North because the supplies situation for his men was becoming dire). Then Sherman would have still burned is way through the heart of the Confederacy and Grant still would have taken command in the East, and battered down Lee’s Army.

@purple titan:
The west and the blockade took a while to be truly effective, he invaded the north at Gettysburg because of lack of supplies (was supposedly looking for boots), but that was after 2 years of war.Obviously, an extended war favored the North, and obviously the western campaign would have happened and worked, but that all took time to jell. The war very well could have been over in 1861 in the Peninsula campaign, if McClellan hadn’t been the jackass he was (he decided to negotiate with Lee, or try to,and in hesitating let Lee’s army go). The western campaign and Sherman happened in part because of desperation, neither Grant nor Sherman was well thought of, and the generals running the Union army were quite frankly incompetent in one way or the other, either willingness to fight and or fear (McClellan) or outright incompetent (Halleck and Meade come to mind) in not pursuing victory.The idea of the Fabian war would require the war would be settled before the time frame you are talking about, that if Lee in effect didn’t let the Union have any victories, by fighting skirmishes, and if likewise in the west they fought that way, by 1863 the north might have been forced to sue for peace.

Obviously, that is speculation, but it doesn’t change my central idea, that basically given their circumstances the only way the South could have won would have been to fight such a fabian kind of war. Against a well equipped North (very much like the British were), fighting open battles wastes precious resources they didn’t have, both men and material, and one of the reasons that Washington did what he did was he simply didn’t have the troops for all out war or the war material, they claim the Continental Army had 15,000 men, but that was really, really pushing it, at times he probably had less than 10,000 to muster; and some of the most successful campaigns against the British were skirmish tactics that people like Marion used down south, the famous swamp campaign giving him the title of the Swamp Fox.

I am not saying that the south would be sure to win, just saying that if they had any chance,the Fabian strategy would have been the way to go, and hope the north sued for peace.

@musicprnt, OK, I agree that the war in the east dragged on because Army of the Potomac generals before Grant were flawed, but in a world where Lincoln and Grant and Sherman did exist and the blockade did slowly strangle the Confederacy, it’s hard to imagine a scenario where the Confederacy wins. With no capital to defend in the west, the Union objective was simple: close and fight.

The Union had a lot of room for error. The Confederacy needed brilliant commanders as well as continued Union incompetence or a President unwilling to fight.

@purple titan:
We are talking about the inponderable ifs here, and keep in mind that through much of the beginning of the war Sherman was I believe out of the army, and Grant was in a backwater, not well thought of. What you are saying historically is very true about what did happen, but the reality is that it took time for the northern Armies to find the fighting spirit and to go through a lot of bad commanders, and for the south to win would have mean taking advantage of that time by hoping for the north to grow tired of the war. The reality was that by 1863, people were growing tired of the war, there were problems with getting soldiers (by that point, it was no longer predominantly idealistic volunteers, but increasingly bitter draftees, and it seemed like the North would never win. If you asked people up north how the war was going, they would probably tell you not well, that it always seemed like the south won, that this was going to go on for a long time and so forth. The war in the west to a large extent hinged around the siege of Vicksburg , to allow the Union to control the Mississippi, it was a protracted fight that didn’t seem to be getting anywhere. The reality is that Gettysburg and Vicksburg both electrified people in the North, and it allowed, for example, Lincoln to bypass the military chain and put Grant in charge, which led to Sherman’s campaign and so forth.

Was the fabian strategy a guaranteed or likely way to victory? No, given the disparity between North and South, it wouldn’t necessarily be likely to succeed, but it had a chance, which I don’t think conventional warfare ever had. For one thing, the South was counting on Great Britain getting involved, they were depending on Britain to supply them with needed goods, in return for their cotton. The problem was that Britain was able to make do with Egyptian cotton, and more importantly, they couldn’t do without grain from the midwest, controlled by the North.