The 5 sentence essay that gained admission into Harvard

It’s not about collective guilt.

It’s more about recognizing that those who are included in the dominant majority may have blindspots because they don’t have the same experiences with oppression from the dominant majority in a given society as another marginalized group. Also, some groups which weren’t considered “White” in the past now are with the attendant societal granted privileges and sometimes inclination to marginalize those who are still marginalized or who have faced a greater degree of marginalization(i.e. AAs)

Thus…telling them they need to “get over it”, second guessing marginalized accounts, etc like you have done on other threads related to racism and students protesting racism/related issues is playing into the standard behaviors those in the dominant majority often use to ignore, belittle, and marginalize those who are already heavily marginalized in a given society.

One analogy I can think of is that behavior is similar to a child from a well-off home monopolizing all the toys in a communal playground/pre-school then throws an over-the-top temper tantrum when he/she’s called out for it by other kids and is forced by the supervising teacher to stop monopolizing and start sharing those toys out with all the kids as they were intended. Or…does so because he/she feels some sort of affinity for that temper tantrum throwing well-off child when it wasn’t necessarily about him/her in that instance.

Your analogy is strange, as I’m not monopolizing any toys, nor are you my “teacher” with power to tell me what to think or do. Face it - you have a bug up your backside over people who are white, well off, and suburban. You belittle them frequently.

“Many Irish-Americans in the south were part of the southern White slave-owning elite and/or fought for the Confederacy”

Cobrat has conflated the Scots Irish with Irish American immigrants of the second half of the nineteenth century.

Back to your history books!

So JFK got special preferences for being a Second Gen college student and for being low SES in the 1%?

What?!

And Oh, Brother.

Whatever else can be pulled from this essay, it shows that people can do great things and make history without being able to write an amazing essay by 17, if they are given the right opportunities.

Does being given the right opportunities include going to Choate?

I love how we’re being lectured about how Catholics didn’t have the social standing of WASPs years ago, as if we didn’t already know that. Stay tuned - it will be revealed that there was a civil war in the 1860s, too. Who would have known?

What I want for the holidays is not to have so many threads turned into history lectures (apparently at times fraught with errors as noted above) about the downtrodden vs the elitist snobs. Maybe if someone wants to talk about history they can start a thread about that.

I suspect @cobrat’s ancestors were up to just as much bad stuff as any white dominant majority.

There might have been other reasons that people did not want Joe Kennedy in their club or otherwise around them.

Wasn’t he supposedly a bootlegger? Though I don’t know if that was ever proven.

But no, dadx, the only reason someone doesn’t want someone else around them is because of their race / religion / ethnicity / amount of money they make. (/sarcasm)

Cobrat, it’s entirely true that Southern Italians and Sicilians were not generally considered to be white back around the turn of the 20th century, since a great many were (and are!) quite dark-skinned. The same was often true of Jewish people. But you’re simply repeating a common, but unfounded, historical myth when you say that Irish people weren’t considered “white.” Of course there was discrimination against the Irish, but it was based on religion, nationality, poverty, and immigrant status – not on their supposedly being non-white. Go look up any Irish name in any U.S. census record from the 19th century (I actually just looked as far back as 1840), and you’ll see that the Irish are uniformly classified as being “white.” Nobody ever thought of the Irish as being “colored,” or any other term for non-white people.

I think the confusion of people who repeat this myth is based on the common practice in the 18th and 19th centuries, both here and in Great Britain, of speaking about nationalities in racial terms – the “Anglo-Saxon” race, the Spanish race, the French or Gallic race, and certainly the Irish race. To the extent that people said that the Irish were of a different “race” from the English, that’s what was meant. Not that the Irish weren’t “white.”

Ah, those dark-skinned aliens set to take over our country! The quotes are from Benjamin Franklin. Substitute “Latinos” or “blacks” for “German”, amd the paragraph will have the same sort of message as you could hear on a radio talk show today.

I had a high school buddy (unhooked in every possible way) who got into MIT in the late 70s with a similar essay…it just wasn’t that hard back then…you sent in your grades…you sent in 1 standardized test…you had a teacher write a note…and, if you were bright, you were in.

Your friend getting in doesn’t prove that it was “hard” or “easy.”

Donna is right, the Irish were never considered “non white” as such, they were discriminated against primarily because of their religion and that many Irish immigrants were poor and uneducated (if I remember correctly about the nativist riots in NYC, the earlier Irish immigrants were often Irish protestants or scotts Irish, and they resented the waves of later Irish immigrants who were Catholic).

It is telling that when in the 1920’s they passed the first immigration restrictions since the Asian exclusion acts, that it basically blocked immigrants from southern and eastern Europe (Italians, Greeks, Poles, Russians, etc) to a very low quota, it was like 22,000 total from those regions combined, it basically did not limit immigration from Nothern Europe (what the law did was limit immigration to a percent of the population before 1890; by 1890 the Irish already had a lot of people here, as did people from Germany, England, and to a lesser extent Scandinavia, so their quote was much larger, basically pretty much allowed in anyone who wanted to come), and one of the reasons was people from Eastern and Southern Europe were considered non Anglo Saxon and didn’t have the work ethic and such of the ‘northern races’ (to use the writing of the time).

The difference was that post WWII, the Irish, Italians, Greeks, Poles, Russians and so forth, and even the Jews, became de facto white in the atititudes of most, the restrictions on living in some areas, the job discrimination that was one rampant, diminished and died off, before WWII for example if you were from such a background, companies like IBM and Bell Labs would likely not hire you, and if they did they certainly had ‘quotas’ (not too bright, someone pointed out to leaders of places like IBM and Bell Labs the accomplishments of people like Marconi and Enrico Fermi and the many Jewish scientists who had helped revolutionize physics and chemistry and such, and the response was “that is a different story”…)…post WWII it was very different…which is not true of blacks and hispanics and others, where lingering discrimination is still the norm, if more subtle than outright bans once were.

As far as Joseph Kennedy goes, the feelings against him were a combination of things, some of the repugnance was in how he amassed his wealth and also his major part of the machine politics dominated by Irish Catholics in Boston, much the same as in Tammany Hall was in NYC. I don’t know about him being a bootlegger, that one I have never been able to track down for veracity, but I do know for certain that Kennedy made a lot of money selling basically watered securities (Ie where they just kept issuing new stock shares, without adjusting the price of existing ones) or ones in companies that were basically a sham from the start to simply sell fictional stock, including reputedly somehow getting a list of the soldiers who died in WWI who would presumably get death benefits and selling crap stocks and bonds to the families of the deceased, which I haven’t been able to run down. I am sure being Irish and a Catholic also worked against him, but some of it was also the kind of person he was. (Put it this way, there was a reason Roosevelt put him in charge as the first head of the SEC, he basically told Kennedy he was a thief and a crook, and who better than someone who knew every scheme to head the agency regulating it…and supposedly when Kennedy balked, FDR told him it was either he head the SEC, and enforce the law, or go to jail under the new law).

As far as Kennedy getting in with that little essay, it was a different time, back then the kids going to the elite prep schools were almost guaranteed admissions to the ivy league schools, and remember that in that day, before the second world war, a college like Harvard was probably almost entirely filled up with full pay students (which obviously old Papa Joe could pay), there just wasn’t the kind of financial aid available back then. Sure, there were always ‘scholarship’ students from more modest backgrounds, who caught someone’s eye and ended up at the prep schools (sometimes because they were outstanding students, standouts, others because they were athletes) and then got a scholarship to harvard, but they were a small minority of the population, so if you were in some way in the ‘gentleman’s league’ ie the top prep schools, and daddy could pay full freight, there just wan’t the competition to the elite schools.

My father entered Yale in 1936, at the age of 16, as part of the Class of 1940, at a time when I believe the 10% Jewish quota was still being applied. He got in even though he had gone to a public school (Roosevelt High School in Yonkers) and his parents were not able to pay the tuition (as low as it must have been in those days). An uncle who was well-off – Edward J. Flynn’s law partner, for any of you familiar with NYC political history! – ended up paying for him. I have no idea what, if anything, he wrote for an essay, but I’m sure the fact that his state Regents exam scores were the second highest in all of New York State that year (I found the New York Times article online not long ago) didn’t hurt. The same for my son’s other grandfather, who grew up in a poor Jewish family in Newark, NJ and had, I believe, the highest exam scores in New Jersey in 1932, the year he graduated from high school. He was admitted to and graduated from Harvard, also without having gone to prep school. (Not the easiest kind of academic legacy for my son to try to live up to, but he’s held his own, I think.)

My grandfather came through Ellis Island and started supporting his family at 16 when his father died. He had three boys - they went to public school in the Chicago suburbs. When his family decided my Dad was slacking off too much and wouldn’t get into Harvard like his two older brothers they packed him off to Exeter. I never got the impression that the legacy of brothers was going to cut it. Interesting my Dad had a loyalty to Exeter for the rest of his life and one of his great disappointments was that neither of my brothers wanted to attend.

I read the obituaries in the New York Times almost every day. It’s fascinating to me to see the men who are dying in their 80s and 90s who had the “traditional upbringing” – went to Exeter or St. Paul’s; went to Harvard, Yale or Princeton; went to Harvard or Yale law school; and somewhere along the way served in the Navy. Things aren’t like that anymore.