<p>Well I think what you are proposing will be detrimental to undergraduates everywhere. If institutions start pumping more and more money into research, more and more money will be taken away from undergraduates causing problems found at these notable research institutions i.e. too many TA’s, too many large classes, profs who care more about grad students than undergrads, and generally a poor undergraduate experience. We might as well just throw out the undergraduate years and have everyone begin grad school because if we follow your advice all the undergrads will be doing is helping to fund the research.</p>
<p>Also, something I want to point out to you that people seem to forget is that the PhD route is becoming more and more unappealing with each passing day. Having done research in a couple labs myself, many of the grad students I have encountered often regret their academic path especially with the lack of governmental funding today. If something doesn’t change research will decline at every institution as more and more of our generation are frightened off from research careers.</p>
<p>I posted my reply in a similar thread but I wanted to post it on this thread too:</p>
<p>Well I think what you are proposing will be detrimental to undergraduates everywhere. If institutions start pumping more and more money into research, more and more money will be taken away from undergraduates causing problems found at these notable research institutions i.e. too many TA’s, too many large classes, profs who care more about grad students than undergrads, and generally a poor undergraduate experience. We might as well just throw out the undergraduate years and have everyone begin grad school because if we follow your advice all the undergrads will be doing is helping to fund the research.</p>
<p>Also, something I want to point out to you that people seem to forget is that the PhD route is becoming more and more unappealing with each passing day. Having done research in a couple labs myself, many of the grad students I have encountered often regret their academic path especially with the lack of governmental funding today. If something doesn’t change research will decline at every institution as more and more of our generation are frightened off from research careers.</p>
<p>SSobick, these rankings may have their uses, but just because someone rated the University of Florida highly does not mean you have to post the exact same thing over and over again in multiple threads. I hope you can find something better to do than trying to push a personal agenda on a forum for high school students. Stop worrying so much about where US News put your school.</p>
<p>Ssobick- how could research become the #1 determinant for a college’s worth? Where is the value in that?</p>
<p>In my opinion, the worth of the liberal arts college lies in the fact that they could care less how they are ranked, how much money, or how many science labs they have… their top priority is the EDUCATION of their students. </p>
<p>And if the education world is truly starting to lean away from this sort of focus, then I feel very sorry for future generations of college students, who will be taught not to learn, but to produce “research” that reflects well on the institution.</p>
<p>Without ongoing research schools would have little knowledge to pass on to their students as most sciences and even social sciences would be either out of date or passing on false or misleading information as facts. So we need the research to keep the education up to date and relevant. The problem is to balance research and the classroom educational duties. </p>
<p>Research funding is still very strong despit a little flattening this year–it is up significantly from just year 2000 or so. The Dems will probably start some major new research spending next year with the Reps losing more power.</p>
<p>^This is typical Liberal Arts College bravado. </p>
<p>Honestly what is so important about the experience during Undergrad? Sounds like a good option for wimpy kids who need to be cottled by Professors and Administrators.</p>
<p>^JS & Calidan spew the typical Liberal Arts College bravado. Think about what they are saying and you will see how weak their argument is.</p>
<p>Honestly what is so important about the experience during Undergrad? Sounds like a good option for wimpy kids who need to be cottled by Professors and Administrators. Research Universities have the best faculty, facilities, and alumni networks.</p>
<p>You go to college to learn, then research. Research dollars go (largely) to grads and profs who already got their basic education, frequently in a LAC type learning style.</p>
<p>US universities are considered the best in the world largely because of the more liberal arts format of US colleges.</p>
<p>Well, SSobick just to give you a little background. I currently do cancer research at a nearby cancer center and I hope to one day get my PhD in cancer biology. But despite my interest in research, I still think that a great classroom education is a vital necessity to create future researchers who are both knowledgeable and inquisitive. If we take your advice we will soon all be learning for unexperienced TA’s who teach straight from the book. </p>
<p>I’d like to know what university you go to? I’m just wondering what are your experiences with research and teaching? (I’m hoping you actually have some type of background to support your claims).</p>
<p>Well, SSobick just to give you a little background. I currently do cancer research at a nearby cancer center and I hope to one day get my PhD in cancer biology. But despite my interest in research, I still think that a great classroom education is a vital necessity to create future researchers who are both knowledgeable and inquisitive. If we take your advice we will soon all be learning for unexperienced TA’s who teach straight from the book.</p>
<p>I’d like to know what university you go to? I’m just wondering what are your experiences with research and teaching? (I’m hoping you actually have some type of background to support your claims).</p>
<p>stating how important the classroom is (small classes and personal attention) is in my mind to an extent just making excuses for the high tuition of liberal arts and other private schools. Research is the future of universities and their prestige. period. i agree students must have access to their profs and such, but my god, the way some people talk about large research universities you would think you could never ever even so much as see the professors of your classes. and that just simply isnt the case. as tuition at many private schools approaching 40k, not including living expenses and such, very few schools could be worth that amount of money, especially when states like california, michigan, virginia, north carolina, wisconsin have excellent public education systems.</p>
<p>“Without it, you cannot hope to be a well-formed human being”</p>
<p>So by this logic the only human beings on the planet that are actually well-formed were the ones lucky enough to study Liberal Arts in the United States?</p>
<p>I would like to get my hands on whatever your smoking.</p>
<p>Well ucchris, I agree with you that research is an important aspect to the American education system (one of the major reasons I chose Brown was some of the specific research going on there). But like you said, “students must have access to their profs and such” which is what I’ve been trying to explain to SSobick, who is becomingly increasingly defensive for no apparent reason. I have a brother who attends Michigan State University, a large research university, and he has had a difficult time in many of his science and math classes, where professors are more likely to have research projects. From what he’s told me many of the profs were awful, the TA’s were unqualified and often barely spoke english, and the profs didn’t really care if the students were learning. Often times, him and his friends saw the pointlessness of going to class because they were better off learning from a book. </p>
<p>Personally, I really enjoy research and hope to continue it into the future. But I think that if a university doesn’t balance research and academics, undergrads will continually be plagued by these problems.</p>