<p>
I thought this might refer to Miss Lasqueti, who was seen as a modest, spinsterish woman but who later showed she was more ribald than one would expect.</p>
<p>^ Sylvan - I think you’re right
page 167 Mr Mazappa is out on deck with Miss Lasqueti "Once he covered her shoulders with his jacket. “I thought she was a blue-stocking at first,” he had said of her.</p>
<p>[Blue</a> Stockings Society - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Stockings_Society]Blue”>Blue Stockings Society - Wikipedia)
The Blue Stockings Society was an informal women’s social and educational movement in England in the mid-18th century
literature and the arts were of main discussion</p>
<p>Ignatius-What an interestig find about Jasper- although it seems some of his WW2 claims are disputed. Amazing though.</p>
<p>I wonder if Ondaajte named his Mazappa after Mazeppa ?
A real person who is mythologized, in art, literature and music.
**Opera ** by Tchaikovsky.</p>
<p>**Literature ** - Byron - about a man who falls in love with older woman , and is punished by being strapped to a horse and sent into exile
<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazeppa_(Byron[/url])”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazeppa_(Byron)</a></p>
<p>**art ** [mazeppa</a> - Google Search](<a href=“http://www.google.com/search?q=mazeppa&hl=en&prmd=imvnsb&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=VKXST4iLGNTG6AHKyp2-Aw&ved=0CG4QsAQ&biw=1352&bih=669]mazeppa”>http://www.google.com/search?q=mazeppa&hl=en&prmd=imvnsb&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=VKXST4iLGNTG6AHKyp2-Aw&ved=0CG4QsAQ&biw=1352&bih=669)</p>
<p>I just watched ** “Joseph Campbell’s THE HERO’S JOURNEY” **- and was struck by one image which is exactly the photo of the cover of The Cat’s Table. There was in this documentary, a picture of the tug boat, pulling the large looming ship, same angle, same picture! Mm,m,m,m,m, </p>
<p>Perhaps Mary13 and others, have tryed to explain the “mythological/ metaphorical” nature of The Cat’s Table before, but I was stuck in trying to understand what was ‘fact’ vs ‘imagined’. </p>
<p>I now realize this book is layered with so much symbolism. Let’s not forget Ondaajte is a poet, and he and his wife are editors of a prestigious literary journal. In an Ondaajte interview with Colum Mcccann, Ondaajte says it takes him 5 years to complete a book. In the earlier interview posted here- Ondaajte admits to reconfiguring his story, for a long time. “Constructing, deconstructing, reconstructing”. </p>
<p>I liked BCandBU, tapestry motiff, but for me this book was always more like a ** cubist painting. **
Snippets of views, angles, seemingly unrelated images, people, nothing revealed, **everything symbolic **! Campbell’s The Hero’s Journey, has provided a key for me regarding this book. </p>
<p>NJTheaterMom referred to “understanding the truths of the story”. </p>
<p>So if everything is significant in this book, on a mythological or symbolic level,
starting with the title and the animal symbolism within this Michael’s *“hero’s” * Journey. We realize the Dog theme is a recurrent pattern. In fact, Ondaajte dedicates his book at the end
[quote]
For Stella, the sweet hunter— no more thunderstorms <a href=“recall%20his%20life%20in%20Canada%20as%20Thunderstorms%20would%20move%20in,%20he%20shared%20it%20with%20his%20hound,%20the%20sweet%20hunter”>/quote</a></p>
<p>** Mythmom’s ** questioned the title many posts back. She asked why wasn’t this book entitled the **Cats’ ** table ? </p>
<p>I’m looking at the title symbolically- like the Round Table in mythological lore.
We have now the Cat’s Table:
CAT SYMBOL</p>
<p>As for symbolism, cats are symbolic of** rebirth and resurrection**, per their nine lives. Because they are nocturnal, they are also associated with darkness.** Darkness often goes with fear, the unconscious, and things that are hidden.** Cats are also symbols of mystery and magic, as aforementioned, but also unpredictability and even healing.</p>
<p>Celtic Mythology
Cats- The Celts did not revere cats, though there are many references to them in Celtic mythology. They served the same guardian function as demons/angels in the Judeo-Christian myths. Three mythic references to cats which are prominent are;** one, a cat which helps to guard the gates of the Otherworld**; two, one who is able to shapeshift into a ball of fire; and three, one called Irusan of Knowth who stole humans like the faery. Cat-like monsters were also believed to dwell in dark caves.</p>
<p>As Ondaajte, stated, his book is about the “Underneath” …</p>
<p>vs Dog’s symbology:
Fidelity when personified in Westen art stands for the secular aspect of Faith, or the trust that exists between a master and servant, or in family relationships. Fidelity is often represented as a woman, shown holding a golden seal and** a key**, but may also be represented by a dog</p>
<p>Animals combining all symbolism
Dog - Guidance, protection, loyalty, fidelity, faithfulness, watchfulness, the Hunt.</p>
<p>NJTheatermom, I now like the title much more, on a symbolic level, it fits with Ondaajte’s style. </p>
<p>I’d like to say, in no way, am I NOT trying to complicate, this already, messy, complex, complicated FRUSTRATING book, I’m hoping to simplify it’s meanings, message and truth. This book has gotten under my skin ! (In a good way), and watching The Hero’s Journey helped immensely.</p>
<p>SJCM, now that you’ve addressed cats and dogs, it’s time to talk about the birds ;). At the very least, we have “Mynah” and the pigeons…</p>
<p>I’m now in the middle of Joseph Campbell’s Mythos series, via Netflix. Enlightening! </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Sylvan, here are some of my impressions of the birds. </p>
<p>Mynah- nickname appears on page 23 " I would hear him whisper 'Mynah", which had become my nickname".</p>
<p>One one level a Mynah bird repeats back what it hears, just as Michael wrote the lists of “overheard” conversations. </p>
<p>But, here is some additional information- </p>
<p>There are many species of mynah birds, typically grouped into two distinct groups: the “jungle and hill mynahs," and the “true mynahs.” The common mynah is the most prolific of the mynah species and is found all over the world,** particularly in urban communities. Mynah birds are an adaptable species that do well in any habitat.** The bird has been so successful in adapting to urban environments that it has become an invasive pest. The common mynah was declared in 2000 by the International Union for Conservation of Nature’s Species Survival Commission to be one of the world’s 100 worst invasive species and it is a serious threat to the ecosystems of Australia</p>
<p>. The mynah also holds an important role in the Hindu religion. The hill mynah in particular plays an ** important role in the propagation of the holy banyan tree, the national tree of India.** In fact, the word ‘mynah’ is derived from the Hindi word ‘maina’ which means joyful or delightful and is a term of endearment. It also **means ‘messenger of God’ in Sanskrit. **</p>
<p>Read more: Mynah Bird Information | eHow.com [Mynah</a> Bird Information | eHow.com](<a href=“http://www.ehow.com/about_6696006_mynah-bird-information.html#ixzz1xPECyOuT]Mynah”>http://www.ehow.com/about_6696006_mynah-bird-information.html#ixzz1xPECyOuT)</p>
<p>Pigeons-
Miss Lasqueti having pigeons makes me think- of messenger pigeons, apparently English elite breed racing pigeons, and having those pigeons in her vest, reminds me of a magician. </p>
<p>I view Miss Lasqueti as the “goddess, baring wisdom” in this story. </p>
<p>Now some pigeon symbology
Pigeon,-- Return to the security of home,** use of senses to navigate life in a balanced way **</p>
<p>To ancient peoples a ** white pigeon would have seemed miraculous and this explains why the bird was widely worshipped and considered to be sacred. **
Throughout human history the pigeon has adopted many roles ranging from symbols of gods and goddesses through to sacrificial victims, messengers, pets, food and even war heroes!</p>
<p>Other religious groups in India believe that when a person dies his or her soul assumes the form of a bird (normally a pigeon) and ** therefore by feeding birds they are caring for the souls of their departed ancestors. ** The pigeon is revered in India with huge flocks numbering many thousands of birds being fed daily at Hindu temples in town and city centres throughout the country</p>
<p>Although the natural enemy of the feral pigeon is now man, with millions of pigeons being killed in control operations the world over, it is the ** peregrine falcon that is the pigeons’ real natural predator ** </p>
<p>Very interesting Pigeon facts:
<a href=“http://www.deterapigeon.com/21-amazing-facts-about-pigeons.html[/url]”>http://www.deterapigeon.com/21-amazing-facts-about-pigeons.html</a></p>
<p>What do you think? Am I getting carried away by Joseph Campbell ??</p>
<p>I’ve been back from my trip for a couple of days, but I’m only just now getting caught up on some things…like reading this thread. So many interesting observations!</p>
<p>There are a few things I’d like to respond to:</p>
<ol>
<li>The fantastical vs the mundane plot, and Emily’s state of mind at the end of the book.<br></li>
</ol>
<p>In general, I feel that while, on the one hand, Ondaatje was dealing with psychological truths in this novel, on the other hand he was also having fun telling a tall tale, to the extent that the book almost encompasses two different stories with rather loose links between them. </p>
<p>I really don’t think the author means for us to think that Emily was wounded by what happened in the “crime mystery” part of the voyage. She did seem to be living a rather lonely life at the end of the book, but my impression was that this was mostly the result of things that happened in her life after the voyage.</p>
<p>In post #99 above, there was a comment about Emily being alone on the trip. I don’t really think she was alone, though. Not only did she have at least two men courting her, but on p. 43 of the novel, Michael says (referring to Daniels’ interest in Emily), “I suppose he had seen me laughing with her and her friends by the pool, which is where Emily could usually be found.” There is also a comment early in the book about her “ease with others.”</p>
<ol>
<li> Whether or not Michael was a cold person.</li>
</ol>
<p>I’ll admit that there is some supporting evidence for this point of view, but I liked Michael and agreed with what Mary said in post #126 about him.</p>
<ol>
<li> Minor characters, symbolism, etc.</li>
</ol>
<p>While I do think there is a great deal of symbolism in the book, I also think that some of the minor characters served mostly just to move the story along. Mr Nevil’s knowledge of ships, for example, gave Michael more access than he might plausibly have had otherwise.</p>
<p>In the case of the funny little chapter “Two Violets” (p. 158), I felt that Michael’s observation that he wished Mr Hastie could play cards with those two ladies was one of the first indications that he was maturing a bit as the voyage moved into its second half.</p>
<ol>
<li>Political undertones?</li>
</ol>
<p>SJCM, in your post #129 above, you say something about political undertones. I’d be interested to learn what you mean.</p>
<p>NJTM: 1.) After finishing, I also felt “that the book almost encompasses two different stories with rather loose links between them.” After exploring the book further, I’m not sure I agree. The author starts subtly linking the two seemingly disparate stories early. I definitely disagree about Emily not being wounded by events. Remember this:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>2.) I agree. Michael’s role as viewpoint narrator adds distance, remove, in and of itself, perhaps making him seem colder than he is.</p>
<p>3.) I agree that the minor characters add depth and detail, in the main … though I think the Mr. Fonseka interlude points out Michael’s longing for the country he leaves behind him.</p>
<p>My forays into symbolism tend to be surface level, as in Mr. Fonseka represents home, community. </p>
<p>With that thought in mind ;)</p>
<p>SJCM: I think of Michael’s nickname “Mynah” representing his role of narrator. As for the pigeons, I think they point to time and place and add intrigue to Miss Lasqueti. Messenger pigeons played a part in WWII, which has just ended. The pigeons, like Jasper Maskelyne, like many conversational gambits, would have stemmed from that immediate past. The fact that Miss Lasqueti could have worked with the pigeons and Whitehall automatically makes her more than she seems at first glance.</p>
<p>Regarding Emily’s “woundedness”…back in post #18 of this thread there is the following question:</p>
<p>“6. For several charactersthe three boys and Emily among themthe journey represents a loss of innocence. For whom does it have the greatest impact?”</p>
<p>Do you think the journey had the greatest impact on Emily?</p>
<p>The book hints that it might be Cassius:</p>
<p>p. 260:</p>
<p>"His only gesture outward, apart from our companionship, which was obviously just temporary, was the concern he had for that girl. And when Asuntha disappeared into the sea, I saw my friend, as if burned by an adult truth, retreat further.</p>
<p>An artist with burned hands. What was his life like after that? The last years of his teens must have been a time when he could rely on no one and believe in nothing. It is easy to be such a person when you are an audult, when you can survive on your own. But Cassius, I suspect, lost the rest of his childhood on the ship that night."</p>
<p>Just chiming in to say I loved the book-but I’m struggling to keep up with a summer on-line course(and enjoying wonderful house guests) and I havent’ had the time to read everyone’s insights which I am always so very impressed with! Sorry for not joining into the discussion-I will try to pop back in if I get a few assignments under my belt! THanks again for everyone taking the time to orgainize the book group and make it so interesting.</p>
<p>NJTM: I meant to say welcome back from your trip - hope you had a good time. </p>
<p>Regarding question #6. For several characters—the three boys and Emily among them—the journey represents a loss of innocence. For whom does it have the greatest impact?</p>
<p>I think Emily more so than Cassius. Years later, she still can’t sleep peacefully. On board ship, people surround the well-liked Emily; at the end, she isolates herself on an island. (mythmom pointed out Emily’s lonely later life when she mentioned a sad ending to the novel.)</p>
<p>Cassius experiences feelings of tenderness/protectiveness for Asuntha - possibly his first. However, he spent most of his time with the other boys. Like Michael, he only witnesses events. Yes, to disappointment and even a sense of betrayal, but no to any intimate knowledge of events.</p>
<p>Emily leaves the ship having been deeply involved in the tragedy. Emily becomes physically intimate with Sunil and emotionally intimate with Asuntha … both using her to help the convict escape. I might feel more pity for Asuntha’s role, but it seems she and Sunil play a part in drugging Emily and murdering Perera. Emily leaves that boat having been badly used and thinking she murdered someone. No wonder dreams haunt her.</p>
<p><em>Waving at PATM: I wondered where you were. I knew you planned to join the discussion.</em></p>
<p>Thanks, Ignatius. I was actually moving my son into the place he’ll be living this summer while doing an internship in another state, five hours away. It was an interesting trip…not necessarily in the fun category…but spending a number of hours of one-on-one time with my beloved, rapidly maturing and increasingly independent kid was a treat. </p>
<p>Re the Cassius/Emily question, I think I sometimes tend to be a little too literal minded. Ondaatje said that Cassius was wounded by the events, and with Emily we are given to infer it. One thing that I think is clear is that while Emily may have been somewhat innocent when the trip began, she was much more worldly than the boys.</p>
<p>One thing that hasn’t been mentioned in this thread is the two erotic passages, one with Massi and one with Emily (I think the Lasqueti letter was a little different). I believe that here again, Ondaatje was having fun writing something fantastical and not altogether plausible.</p>
<p>In the Massi scene, she was a young teenager, presumably pretty innocent and sheltered, though with a wild streak, and she supposedly suddenly showed Michael her breasts? Hmm, I don’t think so. Male novelists often have innocent young girls acting suddenly bold, and I really don’t think it happens all that often in real life!</p>
<p>In the Emily scene, it was strongly implied that she was sleeping in the nude in her cabin. My reaction? Yeah, riiiight. :)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I so agree. Wasn’t her brother sleeping in the next bed at the time, too?</p>
<p>I don’t want to redirect the ongoing converstation, just want to respond to NJTheatermom’s question:
</p>
<p>Dog attacked and killed rich Hector, who was no longer referred to as Knight after his death. </p>
<p>Movie shown-Those in first class saw it in order, there were 40 of them
Those in lower classe (numbered 100) saw the movie out of order.
Four Feathers- unsympathetic to Arabic people. Jankla Troupe timed their stunts to interfere with the movie’s scenes of brutality and killing. </p>
<p>Prisoner, was probably “loved” by the people in Ceylon, therefore they needed guards from Maldive island, so people would assist in his escape. “Political prisoner?”</p>
<p>Lecture on board the Ship- something about England’s role during the Crusades- Mr Fonseka, comes back and summarizes, England did not do enough.</p>
<p>Another tea-time discussion- something about 2300 workers who died of cholera during the construction of the Canal. </p>
<p>The entire ship was a contained class system, with all kinds of references to everyone living in their spaces. The Cat’s Table, the title reflects this. </p>
<p>I believe the “bridging” of Aunt Prins and Mr Hastie, was a merging of classes. Mr Hastie was painting the side of the boat at the time Michael, points him and Michael is so “proud” when Mr Hastie, from way below waves recognition to Michael. </p>
<p>Cassius, was a rebel. always fighting against authority, he was very democratic.
Even his namesake is famed political figure:
</p>
<p>Regarding Cassius’s murals. Perhaps Michael, art is in the eye of the beholder.
Might Cassius’s recollection and depiction be a political commentary, of workers being looked down on? For Michael, those murals captured a moment with his “brother”, a personal meaning.
I assume those canals, and that moment for Cassius, held different meaning, a political meaning, created to express his overall angst with the powerful. </p>
<p>
[quote]
The Suez Canal Company (Compagnie Universelle du Canal Maritime de Suez) came into being on 15 December 1858 and work started on the shore of the future Port Said on 25 April 1859.</p>
<p>The excavation took some 10 years using forced labour (corv</p>
<p>Remember the comment written all over the whole page of Cassius’s quest book-
“LITTLE OLD LADY GOT MUTILATED LATE LAST NIGHT”…
apparently from Warren Zevon song.
(At end of book, Ondaajte writes,
</p>
<p>The song’s title, The Warewolves of London.
“Ya hear him howlin around your kitchen door, ya better not let him in.
**Little old lady got mutilated late last night, werewolves of London again” **</p>
<p>Commentary on England’s Empire?</p>
<p>Whoops, one more political viewpoint.
Horace Johnson, the man who pillaged the earth buying artworks = American.</p>
<p>And just because I couldn’t resist:</p>
<p>[Warren</a> Zevon - Werewolves Of London - YouTube](<a href=“- YouTube”>- YouTube)</p>
<p>I think this also points to time and place: “Werewolves of London” was a hit in 1978. It also points to Cassius being one with the indie art world.</p>
<p>Hi, I’m just checking in to say how much I am enjoying everyone’s posts. Unfortunately, I can’t contribute in any coherent fashion by pecking out responses in the car on an iphone. But I’ve spent a lot of time using that phone to look up fascinating facts about such disparate subjects as Tchaikovsky’s Mazeppa, the Suez Canal, the Crusades and Warren Zevon. :)</p>
<p>In addition to its political overtones, do you think the film The Four Feathers has any relevance to Michael’s personal life? It’s about a man who is accused of cowardice and rejected by his closest friends and his fiancee. In his path to redemption, he is caught between two worlds, the one into which he was born (England) and the one to which he must travel to in order to be redeemed (Sudan). Is Michael living by (or not living by) any particular code of honor–an idea central to the film?</p>
<p>Greetings Mary, hope you’re enjoying your journey! </p>
<p>Great summary of the movie, * The Four Feathers *, and of course, it parallels, Michael’s life.
</p>
<p>Mary, what do ** you ** think about Michael and a code of honor ? I’m struggling with that question.</p>
<p>Michael, exists beyond duality of “good and bad” to me, like his nickname he is just a Mynah bird reflecting his journey. He survives it all, the turmoil, of lost love, unrequited love, disappointing his friends, and their parents, of not being respectful to a beloved mentor, Mr Fonseka, afraid he will not judge his a true artist. But, in the end he (Michael, Mynah, Ondaajte) honors them all with his art, his story, the book, their story.
Like Gods and Goddesses he weaves their saga, his saga, in artistic, mythic majestry. The artist’s code ? </p>
<p>The myth and symbols of ** Persephone ** seems very applicable.
Angry father sacrifices his daughter, condemning her to life in the Underworld.
But, alas, she is allowed to bring life, spring, light back into the world for part of the year. Redemption, life ever lasting.
I think of the summer solstice, the festival Miss Lasqueti attended after she symbolically, “Cut” Horace from her life, and began anew. </p>
<p>I’m quite fixated on Myths and how they relate to Ondaajte’s book. </p>
<p>Miss Lasqueti, is ** Hekate ** and MANY, MANY symbols associated with her,
are abundant throughout the book. (in one article I read the word "polecat’, can’t locate it, but it jumped off the page= that’s what Captain called the boys, until he called them something even more vile)</p>
<p>Mary here’s something to read on your iphone - GREAT article!!!
<a href=“http://www.jacquelinefeather.com/images/Reimagining_Hekate.pdf[/url]”>http://www.jacquelinefeather.com/images/Reimagining_Hekate.pdf</a></p>
<p>
</p>
<p>For Hekate symbology
<a href=“http://www.goddessgift.com/goddess-myths/greek_goddess_hecate.htm[/url]”>http://www.goddessgift.com/goddess-myths/greek_goddess_hecate.htm</a>
[Hekate:</a> Moving Through Darkness](<a href=“http://home.comcast.net/~subrosa_florens/witch/hekate.html]Hekate:”>http://home.comcast.net/~subrosa_florens/witch/hekate.html)</p>
<p>Shout out to Mythmom- I now think that the “cat’s” table,
is really Miss Lasqueti’s table-
the cat as the symbol for Hekate… !!!</p>
<p>SJCM, re how The Four Feathers relates to Michael, I wonder if it represents some residual guilt he has over not living up to others’ expectations. I also found it interesting that the movie was playing on two screens at the same time, with Michael able to hear both soundtracks, each at different points in the story. And also interesting that the storm prevented him from knowing how the story ends. We’ve found that sort of duality and open-endedness to be an important element of The Cat’s Table.</p>
<p>^great point Mary13. Viewing, observing through different angles throughout the book.
Michael, didn’t know how that movie ended at that time, but later in life he finds out. </p>
<p>Mary13…can you explain the meaning of the dream about ** Massi with short hair**, pregnant ? Page 202
alpine house, animals ground level, short hair,running from anvils and blades. </p>
<p>This dream recollection follows discussion about Madonna’s knowing the fate of the baby, and that Ramadhin’s mother would have had such an expression, if Michael had been aware. </p>
<p>Then the dream is mentioned, followed by admitting he breaks from intimacy.
Eventually, stating that ** “I went to School” **, when Massi asked “Who did this to you?”</p>
<p>Emily’s last statement to Michael, is **" time to go to school". **</p>