The "chasing merit" epic campus road trip of 2016 - suggestions anyone?

Have you looked into Macalester? Also, if you haven’t already, you should look through the Dance Major forum, and post there as well if you don’t find what you are looking for in existing threads.

When checking into Greek life be aware of the following. The % of students involved as quoted by the school often excludes freshmen as they may not be joining until 2nd semester or 2nd yr. So if they say the Greek rate is 30%, but it excludes freshmen, it really is more like a 40% participation rate. And Greek life with houses is usually a little more intense than Greek life without houses

Another suggestion for visiting Women’s Colleges if you’ve eliminated them without visiting one. My daughter wasn’t that keen on the idea until she visited one. I believe Mt Holyoke sounds up your daughter’s ally.

Wow, look what is waiting for me at breakfast! I am always amazed by the generosity of the CC community. There is certainly a lot to think about.

To clarify further, D1 knows that she will have to compromise in some areas and is reasonable. The list I provided are preferences, not a list of iron-clad requirements. She knows that there is not a magical college that will meet every single one of her preferences, much less one that we can afford. She also knows that partying will happen everywhere and that most schools have some Greek life. That said, she does not want to be swimming upstream against a prevailing current that would make her uncomfortable. And the smaller the school, the more important those tendencies become. In a larger school, there will be enough people of all categories to find one’s tribe. Hence my request for help to identify some larger options.

She has also looked at OOS publics that have honors programs and would fit our budget. These range from Western Washington University to U Mass-Amherst, both still on her list of possibilities, despite the fact that U Mass is larger than she would prefer.

The main limiting factor is dance. She has danced professionally for nearly a decade and it is central to who she is. So the list of very fine Midwestern LACs that got cut, were cut because they lacked a dance program or it wasn’t strong enough. While it’s possible to go out into the community to find dance, it is also quite easy to get drawn into a company with a serious time commitment and that would detract from the college experience I would like her to have.

@OnTheBubble Opinions on Dickinson diverge widely – even in this thread – some say it’s preppy and snooty, others claim it’s more down to earth. Hence my desire to get feedback from people who know it firsthand, and other schools as well. As for your other recommendations, yes, of course I’m willing to visit schools in close proximity, but a college visit typically takes a half-day so there should be a reasonable chance that the fit will be good. If the Princeton guide has any value, Lehigh is rated in the top 20 for LGBTQ unfriendly, lots of Greek life, lots of beer drinking and is the number 11 party school. Gettysburg is number 5 for Greek life and number 3 for poor race/class interaction. Should these reviews be taken with a grain of salt? Certainly. But they also instill a bit of caution.

Lafayette looks like a possible option, thank you for the suggestion.

@momdc Pitt looks like a great option! Completely off the radar. Susquehanna would be lovely, but no dance. :frowning:

@cat136 I will check out Ohio State as well, although I suspect it will be a bit too large at 40K+ students @ZZdecision2016 Ditto for Kentucky, I will check it out.

@lindagaf – I also wouldn’t mind seeing D1 with a red Solo cup in her hand at some point. And yes, visits during the school year would be far more informative. I just can’t see how they would be scheduled before spring 2017. We had hoped to do visits during her spring break last month but it conflicted with a business trip of mine. So we will have to work within the realm of the possible and do revisits next Spring (seniors get a two-week Spring break) As for this summer, she will still be able to interview and “show interest” and get a sense of the campus layout, facilities, surrounding area. Mostly it’s an excuse for us to take a road trip and have a good time. :wink:

@quialah and @moutaingoats and @ReturningFavor and @Dolemite and @midwestmomofboys – If only she’d consider a women’s college! Personally I think Mount Holyoke or Bryn Mawr would be perfect for her, with Smith also worth a close look. She really likes the Northfield/Amherst area and I regret that we didn’t check out either MHC or Smith when we were in the area. I might subversively include Bryn Mawr into the mix, just to see how it goes.

@WhatAProcess Union looks interesting but maximum merit scholarship of 15K probably wouldn’t be enough. But I will take a closer look.

@wisteria100 She finds NYC overwhelming (too bad, I’d love to visit!) so Barnard wouldn’t’work. But thanks for your suggestions

@mamag2855 Ursinus looks like a great option and has a deep dance program. We will take a closer look at Richmond as well. Her school’s GC knows it really well and D1 was just in the area on a DC/Virginia school field trip. Thanks for that very detailed review regarding diversity, campus vibe, dance, etc.

@Citymama9 Thanks for the recommendation on Case Western and JMU.

@ColdinMinny Lawrence would be lovely except it doesn’t have a dance program. St. Olaf is still in the maybe category and if we visit Macalester, we will go there too. She had some concern about the religious aspect, and yes, we know it’s not heavy-handed, but it’s a potential swimming against the dominant current issue.

Thank you all for your time and input!

p.s. for whoever mentioned Denison, thanks! D1 looked at it and thought Wooster would be a better fit. But at a minimum we will check out the campus. Ohio Wesleyan also checks many of her boxes, but again, Wooster appealed more. Much to consider.

Going to second St. Olaf. They had 8 dance majors last year, which is a decent number for a LAC. They also offer dance scholarships, which would stack with academic merit. My son did an overnight there recently and was really struck (and, frankly, somewhat surprised) by how active the LGBT community is there – their Lutheran affiliation doesn’t preclude it from being a very inclusive environment, apparently. There are a decent number of practicing Christians on campus, but my son, who sounds a lot like your D in general temperament and political/spiritual leanings, didn’t feel like it would be an issue for him.

We were at U Rochester last week and they mentioned something about working to really build their dance department over the next few years. I didn’t really pay attention but don’t just look at their historical dance program–may be worth following up directly with the program.

@rayrick and @Almondjoy1 Thank you for your input!

@ReturningFavor, as an aside, Quaker schools sometimes do have Greek life – Swarthmore does.

OP, some parents out here push for visits and application to a “parent’s choice” school. I asked my D2 to visit, and then apply to a college she might not have put in her list, and go to accepted student visits if she got in. Promised she would hear no more about it if she didn’t want to attend after that. She got in everyplace she applied, and realized that the “parent choice” school was her favorite after accepted student visits – she is now a happy junior there.

My opinion is not to tiptoe around and try to slip a visit in – put it out there as something you are requesting as the parent who is helping her apply and ultimately paying for most of it. I am going to say that while I know others will disagree, my kids did not like Bryn Mawr. MHC is the school that seems to snag young women who did not expect to like a women’s college the most. Sounds like you already went to that area, though.

OP, do you know about Westminster College in Salt Lake City, Utah? I gather your D would prefer to go outside the mountain/west area but Westminster gives generous merit aid, has dance, no Greek life, and seems to offer the type of community/vibe your D is seeking. Strong academics, has a rigorous honors program that your D might find appealing, worth a look! By the way Westminster is not a religious school, some people assume it is because it is in Salt Lake City. Westminster is in a truly lovely location for a kid who wants to be in a city yet would appreciate access to mountains.

@intparent Yes, we went to Amherst, but unfortunately didn’t visit MHC. If I could do it again…

Parent’s choice is a helpful idea and yes, the direct approach is generally best. Useful advice!

Duke Univ offers merit scholarships and is known for dance (it’s home of the American Dance Festival). I know it’s in the south, but it’s very not southern. I think they get most of their students from the northeast and mid atlantic. It’s big enough that you can avoid Greek. Another one to look at is Tulane. In the south but heavily populated by Northerners and everyone else from all over. They probably have a good dance program, but I’m not sure.

Is your daughter looking more for strong ballet or modern?

@citymama9 Probably will shift towards ballet-based contemporary (less interested in improv type stuff). It would be nice to move away from pointe shoes! Ballet in depth is also harder to find unless you go for places that offer the BFA, which is a totally different scene, and more competitive than she would like.

Some other schools to look at that have strong dance programs are Butler U in Indianapolis, U of Cincinnati and Fordham LC. I don’t know if they would fit your other criteria and I also don’t know how accessible their dance programs are to non majors but they would be worth a little research. A very long time ago I had a friend who went to UCincinnati and participated in their ballet program without being a major. Also Barnard has strong dance programs. I started out as a ballet major in college and at the time SMU, University of Oklahoma and I think UMCP had dance programs. I went to the U of Utah, strong ballet but again don’t know how open their program is to non majors. Good Luck!

Hmmm. Indiana U has strong ballet, but you would have to see if their advanced classes are open to non-majors. If she found a school she liked in the San Fran area, there’s Alonzo King Lines that she could take classes with. In the Boston area there is Jose Mateo if she finds a college she likes that doesn’t offer ballet. I think it makes more sense to find advanced ballet at your school rather than go outside for classes. Seriously look at JMU. Also check out that website called, Ballet Talk. I remember them having a section on colleges that offer good ballet

Duke looks very good:
https://danceprogram.duke.edu/courses

Your daughter’s interest in dance is similar to mine, so I’m simultaneously researching on both their behalves lol

Duke has little merit aid outside of athletics and it’s hard to get. And if you venture off campus you are in the South.

On Dickinson, my kid visited several times as a prospective athletic recruit, so we dug pretty deeply into the campus culture and community. We also know recent grads and current students who are such impressive individuals, they are the reason we began exploring the school. Dickinson is a community with many different types of kids. Are there kids who look like J Crew models who want to go into business in NYC – sure. But there are many, many other kids who don’t look like that, dress like that, or aspire to those career goals. I believe that there is somewhat higher sorority participation than fraternity, more like 30ish% for girls, but the current female students we know there now have no problem with a robust, active social life without greek life involvement.

Denison is another possibility for merit – a very diverse student body with, like Dickinson, an outdated reputation as being a refuge for east coast kids who didn’t get into NESCAC schools. Denison is close to 20% first generation college kids, and about the same percentage Pell grant recipients (recent years seem to hover around 18-19%). A substantial percentage of the student body receives merit aid. There is greek life, but it is non-residential, and all students must live on campus (unless they live at home with family) so there are no “unofficial” frat houses off campus. Vibrant music culture (Blue grass is a big deal there), and they just announced a $30 million expansion/renovation of the performing arts center. Columbus is less than 30 minutes away and the college is really working to strengthen the connection between campus and Columbus experience. No info about the dance possibilities.

For a point of comparison, Kenyon has about 30% greek life participation, also no residential houses, though greek life members live together in dorm clusters. Merit at Kenyon, Oberlin and Grinnell is much tougher to come by.

Dance opportunities are going to be the biggest challenge – schools with top, competitive ballet programs, like Butler, Cincinnati, etc., give merit, but are BFA programs. It will be difficult to find classical ballet programs at a LAC, with merit. Dickinson may be one of the best opportunities, if the collaboration with the Central PA Ballet works for the OP’s daughter.

http://ousf.duke.edu/merit-scholarship-programs

Parent’s choice advocate here. Uni of Rochester. She thought she wouldn’t like it, and is surprised she does. I very much feel that yes, it is the kid’s life, but we know them better than they think we do. Plus, most parents hold the trump card of “if I am paying for it, I at least can have an opinion.” I think if you have time in your sched, insist on visiting a school you think can work.

I have a friend at Mount Holyoke that sounds just like your daughter! With the 5 college consortium the women’s college feel there is definitely downplayed. I would at least consider it. Skidmore could be a good choice too!