I know that you can never tell from the room, but some schools are known for being a little warmer/more likely to give adjustments or ask for more. Is Point Park known for that? At my audition the head of the program asked me for another song, worked with me on one of my initial songs, talked to me/asked me questions and gave me multiple questions. I know that doesn’t mean anything, but just wondering if Point Park is typically a “warmer” room that works with you. I know some schools, like Rider clearly, are usually not. Thanks:)
lol gave me multiple compliments I accidentally typed questions twice!
@musicaltheatre77 my son got his no from CCM in December. We traveled there and spent the weekend including campus and CCM tours. He actually handled it better than I had expected.
My D didn’t pass the Rider pre-screen last year and she was so bummed. From the comments above, she may have dodged a bullet! She did have one auditor who was writing during her audition and he asked her what she thought he was writing. She said, “probably how awesome I am!” and they both laughed. She got an offer from that school. So I loved the “audition police” wisecrack. Gotta have a sense of humor (or go insane.) But that’s hard for a nervous teenager.
@MThopeful99 I think it depends. I know my D came out of her Point Park audition saying, “She loved me,” and she was right. She was accepted, and that is where she now attends as a BFA MT. But she also felt super positive about her Webster audition, and she wasn’t accepted there. So you can never tell.
@CaliMTdreams I did contact the department chair at Rider and let him know about the comments that were being posted. He responded first by thanking me for sharing the info. He was surprised saying, “usually the comments are extremely positive.” In a follow up email he said that he spoke with one of the adjudicators, writing “I just talked to one of the adjudicators about this and he made the good point that he consciously does not look at the performer for the first part of their singing because he wants to listen to their voice without being influenced by any visuals.” Personally, I don’t think that really speaks to what people have been commenting about.
My guess is that there will be a department meeting at Rider and the vibe they give off will change immediately. While what some people say is true about supply far outweighing demand, I don’t think there is any program, anywhere that wants to turn potential students off from their program. Don’t forget that once the offers go out, it is the potential students who are in the power position. After the offers, it is the MT programs who are hoping that they get enough yeses. Their hope is to fill the class and they would prefer not going to their second and third and fourth rounds of offers.
@TempGuy2 Thanks! I’ll be sure to ask my daughter after her audition if things were different. Thanks for reaching out to them. And I agree that you can not look at someone in order to just hear their voice, but it’s possible to do that and still look engaged. Thanks!
What about those from ccm who were at NYC Unifeids? Anyone heard back from them?
@MThopeful99 Ugh. It’s so hard to try and not read the room. My D had a terrific audition at Point Park. She did her songs/monologues first then danced. After the dance call they pulled her aside and asked her to sing again. They spent a lot of time with her, were very complimentary, and asked questions too. Unfortunately for her, she was accepted academically but not artistically. She was disappointed but she knew it might turn out that way. You never can tell! She’s very happy where she landed now. What will be, will be!
@MThopeful99 we had a similar story with a very positive audition last year that ended up being a rejection. Like @MThopeful2022, mine is very happy where she landed, but the journey there was trying.
It is SO HARD for them (and us) not to get our hopes up. When your kid comes out of the room glowing, it makes you feel so good. It doesn’t mean they aren’t good if they don’t get in. It’s just those damn numbers!
OH, yes. I remember my D calling me after auditioning at one of her dream schools and saying excitedly “Mom, it went SO well! I am literally dancing down the street!” It was for acting, not MT, but they laughed at her comedic monologue, were intent on her classical, asked her for a THIRD monologue, asked her to sing, complimented her resume, talked to her at length…she was SO happy after that audition!
And then…rejection.
The WORST example I ever heard of from the CC board was a mom who said that after her son’s great audition at his dream school, as he was heading to the door, the auditor said “See you in the fall!” And then he DIDN’T get accepted. Ugh!
The way I try to look at it is that when they talk to you a lot in the audition room and are very complimentary and seem to love you, they DO love you…but then after all the auditions are done and they have to put the puzzle pieces together to create an incoming class, they may not have a place for you. It’s NOT as simple as “This kid is talented, so he’s in!” There are SO many factors that we have no control over.
Question (Short version) : Assuming our d enjoys the faculty, students and culture = fit, are we better to take the BA in Theatre Studies in a “top” program and let her put double time into areas of weakness and grow her strengths, while gaining the contacts and more performance opportunities. Or do you try to find a fit with a lesser known program BFA with a strong curriculum and hope it is an up and comer with strong, but less faculty?
My fear with the BA, is she would already be shut out of certain classes unless we pay for private lessons. I have also heard in some schools that the BFA has priority for many of the classes, so the BA may not get in regardless of year in the program.
I would appreciate any experience or past threads that provide insight on this topic. I would also love any ideas on who these up and comer programs are or how to spot them.
Background (Long version): Theme: Late to the dance - literally. New poster to CC but have been reading for a few months. Maybe this isn’t the write group for this post, but been wanting to do my first post so I can share, vent, etc;
Daughter is less experienced and newer to MT. More of a classical singer only learning she could sing 2 years ago, acting (5 or so years, up and coming), but a novice dancer (less than 5 lessons). The dancing part of this journey makes dance calls very difficult, but learning with each new audition. I guess you are winning or learning, right?
Been reading cc for about 3 months and the information has been priceless. Thank you EMSdad and others for really great numbers breakdowns of programs and ways to insure success. Thanks to all who say, “it all works out in the end” as it does truly help to read. My wife and daughter were also new to all of this started out like many, applying to top 25 bfa schools (from the onstageblog article). I later got involved and from reading these forums realized the importance of applying to multiple tiers of programs trying to find a school that will meet my daughter where she is at in experience. We learned about acceptd and auditions, literally a week or two before many of the school prescreen deadlines. Live and learn, a common theme these days.
Prescreens were rejected from many of the top schools. In hindsight, looking at our dance video, probably understandable as we were looking up what a chasse was hours before making the video. A few of the top 25 schools did pass the prescreens but now with the on-campus auditions and dance calls, they are saying the voice is great, but with where she is at with dance, they are suggesting the BA Theatre studies redirection (which doesn’t include voice or dance without paying for separate lessons) so she doesn’t struggle being in classes with the more experienced BFA class (who knew there were performing arts high schools?). They also redirect to VP, but she doesn’t know how to read music so that dept. suggests a BA in Music. Meanwhile, her other tier school auditions are starting to offer BFA MT acceptances. We aren’t big into school names, the curriculum is comparable to the tops schools and we would feel blessed with ONE up and coming school with some contacts if we can get 4 more years to grow her strength in singing and begin to learn to belt, growth in acting and get a run at starting to learn dance or movement. Maybe grad school could offer a few more years of training.
The top schools talk about all of their contacts and how much work their students get after graduating. When I review their faculty, some of these schools have 25-50 faculty across MT, Theatre and Voice (some in the music department). They also say that they have so many shows and performance opportunities that a BA will still have tons of opportunity at their school. Whereas some of the other tiers have <15 total faculty, don’t talk a lot about industry contacts, don’t list broadway alumni, no NY or LA showcases and while there are many main stage shows, there seems to be a lot less “other” performance opportunities. Trying to discern how important all this is at this point in the “journey” for a daughter who loves MT and is fine waiting tables in NY for a shot at doing some form of this for a living.
We are probably too early in the process to ask the question posted at the top, with about 10 more auditions to go. But I assume others have had to deal with these questions. Culture fit, opportunities to learn from inspired and engaged instructors/professors, with “some” industry contacts would be such a dream come true. We just aren’t sure we would know how to spot one of these strong up and coming programs so don’t know how to deal with the BA/BFA situation.
Prayer and seeking information is how I spend my time these days. Your insights are appreciated.
@NewMTDad - Well, you will likely get a lot of opinions on this and many of them willl differ :), but here’s mine: The degrees are different. A BFA is a fine arts degree and the focus is on training and performance (not always performing, but more on that in a minute). A BA is an academic degree. Some schools offer BAs with strong training so not all of the programs are equal - there are several schools with well respected BAs - but you’d need a school that a. allowed their BAs to have a lot of non-academic classes and b. provided a large number of training classes to come close to the training level a “typical” BFA offers. The most respected BA Theatre/MT programs are offered by schools that don’t offer BFAs and I think that’s a really important point.
I know schools like to sell their “BA redirects” as a great opportunity but I think it’s mostly a great opportunity to them to get more students’ tuition dollars and pay the same number of performing arts teachers. The opportunity to perform is not as important as the opportunity to develop as an artist. I (and other parents will disagree) would not choose a BA Theater at a school that offers both degrees unless I knew for sure the school had a track record of including the BA students in their overall training and performance plan. For instance, my D’s non-audition school was Temple where they have a “performance track” BA and that would have been okay for her because she knew she could still audition later for the BFA. But Temple has a plan for accommodating both BA performance students and BA-BFA degree changes and there didn’t seem to be a stigma in the dept against the BAs. On the other hand she was offered BA Theater redirects at Elon and Rider that were both non-starters (for us) - those schools have strong BFA programs and I have heard the BFAs get all the faculty attention. I’d rather my D choose a school where she can shine and get the attention of the faculty rather than have her go through 4 years as an also-ran.
In terms of “name” schools - gven your situation, forget the name. The “names” get everybody auditioning and the competition is tough - your D may be talented but her competition for those slots is students who are talented and experienced and trained. Go for the school that offers her the most opportunity to develop as a performer - which means classes in dance, voice, speech, music theory and acting, not just the chance to audition for a student run musical. If you’ve got a no-name school in the middle of nowhere but they like your D, they can see her potential and they will work with her - you’ve got a gem. After two years if she’s still feeling like she wants better contacts or a better name school, she can look into transferring. But I will bet if she finds a really good match, regardless of the name, she will love it and want to stay.
CaMom13. Thank you so much for all the time you put into this. Very helpful and answers a lot of other questions I had but had already written a novel for my post, so I didn’t ask. The part about developing as an artist is key information here, as that is my fear. Welcome to our program… but you can’t take the best classes or be with our best faculty. This is very useful in knowing what to look for if considering a BA or BFA. Thank you again.
Hi @NewMTDad . I would go for a program that’s going to give your D good training. Since she wants to perform, then a BFA is probably best. As you stated, your late to the game, so she’s not likely IMO to get into the most competitive programs (but you never for sure). A smaller school that wants her is going to best serve her. There are a couple of BA programs where that is the only thing offered, but those are few, tend to blend both Acting and MT (I’m thinking specifically about Loyola Marymount in Los Angeles). I wouldn’t go into a small or mid size program as a BA that also has a strong BFA. She’s would probably have a hard time getting performing roles there. Keep in mind if she does go BFA, it is a training degree most places. It doesn’t give much of a “backup plan” for other career options.
Great info! Sounds like getting 4 years of good training is priority. BFA/BA, more about getting the best training. I love the advice. Thank you.
@NewMTDad To me your d sounds like she would really benefit from a Gap year if she does not get into a BFA program this year. She can take dance classes along with acting and voice coach, That will give you a few months to do some research and visit programs. If she has the voice she will get in a great program after more training - I have heard of amazing success stories after taking a Gap year. Keep in mind - if she starts at a BA program and then auditions next year and gets into a BFA somewhere, most will make her start over as a freshman. If she does want to start school at a BA make sure she can take ballet and jazz dance classes.
also wanted to add - have her take piano lessons, preferably with someone who can teach her music theory. She will thank you later.
@MThopeful99 My d’s best audition was at PP. They had her dance in small groups so many times they apologized to her and asked if she could do it one more time. Then they called her back to sing another song and coached her on the first 2 she had sung before the dance call. She was one of hte last people out of there that day. We toured the school and she pictured herself there for 5 months, until the no came in mid March. She was beyond devastated and crushed. So I hope you do get accepted, but don’t dwell on it. Move on and find other programs that you could be excited about and love. What happens will happen. My d is at another school but it took her 6 months to get over her depression and she still looks sick when PP is mentioned. This process sucks. Do what you have to to keep your mental health.
@MTdreamz I hadn’t considered that but it would give some time to fill some gaps if this BFA school fit doesn’t work out as we hope. Thanks also for the part about piano, I do believe that will be important. Thank you!
@NewMTDad Most BFA programs the kids take piano and sight reading and music theory (which is one of the most difficult classes their freshmen year). She will have to take music theory tests during auditions that they say is just for placement but since they could do that after acceptance it makes me wonder… but the more she learns ahead of time the easier the first year of college will be!
Also have to say - do not pick the best BFA program from one list on one website or magazine. I have been looking at those lists for years and they change every year (other than the top 3) and sometimes there are schools on there I never even heard of. It isn’t that straight forward. I kept a tally of all the different lists from various sources over several years to get a list to look into.
Here is a list - a bit outdated but nice because it lists by state and marks the top 50 programs (in their view) and the BA vs BFA programs and non audition schools:
https://www.broadwayartistsalliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Colleges-and-Performing-Arts-Programs-Packet-2015.pdf