First, I do think talent is somewhat subjective and it is not like an SAT score that is black and white. So, what appeals to one auditor or screener, may not to another. And yes, when these programs have such low acceptance rates, there are very talented kids who don’t get into program A but get into program B and some other kid got into program B and not program A and loads of examples of that sort, as selective programs cannot accept all who qualify. However, I don’t believe the screening process for BFA programs is so much by look or type because they are only narrowing the field down, but still to a pretty large number (often in the hundreds) who will be invited to audition, and I believe it only is who they are then building a class, that lots of other factors will come into consideration. But the screening is basically making some bar that they have set.
Lastly, I don’t know how to say this in a kind way, but your statement that all the kids are good is not one I agree with. I don’t think every single applicant to a BFA program is necessarily good enough to be admitted. What I do believe is when these programs are highly selective with very low acceptance rates, that they DO turn away students who are uber talented, as much so as the ones they accept. But I don’t believe that EVERY applicant who has applied or sends in a prescreen is as good as the next. As an example that is not a BFA in MT, take Harvard or schools of its ilk. They may accept something like 6% of applicants (sort of like BFAs in MT programs), and they definitely turn away students with top credentials who are as qualified as those who are accepted, but there are still applicants on the pile who have NO chance of getting in who were unrealistic in their application to that college. I see this all the time in my work as a college counselor. Not everyone is realistic with their college lists. This also goes for artistic talent, and some don’t have an idea or any benchmarks of if they are in the ballpark to be considered for the types of BFA programs they apply to. I do not believe every applicant is qualified to get in or pass the prescreen (nor do I think it is all based on type/look). I DO believe that more applicants are qualified than a program can accept. I’ll add that my D would say that when she was IN her BFA in MT program, there was still a variation in talent levels between her peers.
Correction to CoachC’s correction. The MTCA coach on my area is very MT focused. Perhaps some MTCA coaches are capable of advising Acting students, but in my experience not all of them are. Our local lady is great for MT, but not so great for Acting. If Acting is your focus, double check their experience/background/focus there’s an MT in MTCA for a reason.
One more comment that likely won’t be taken favorably…
I don’t agree about the example of someone who passed NO prescreens or got into NO BFA programs (though do agree with the example of getting into some but not others and not predicting which those will be nor finding a rhyme or reason other than the highly selective nature and odds of it all). But I feel when someone applies to about 12 BFA in MT programs and gets shut out of ALL of them…there might be a reason other than simply the tough odds…It could be that their college list was not appropriate to them or well balanced. Their academic profile may have been an issue for the selectivity of a particular college, their recs/essays might have been sub par, or they may be talented but do not audition well (auditioning is a skill), their material may not have been right for them, they may only be talented in one of the 3 skill sets, or simply good, but not at the level of BFA acceptance. Yes ,the odds at these programs are very low, but I do believe that someone with the right college list for them who is truly talented enough to pass the bar for a BFA is unlikely to be completed shut out, unless for one of the other reasons I mentioned. I think with the right college list, the appropriate qualified level of talent in the artistic skill areas for a BFA candidate, and all the other factors such as application materials and academics, a student should get into at least one program. If the kid is truly top talent in a national pool of talent, they are not going to be shut out of every school on their list. That is my belief.
I’m not CoachC, nor am I affiliated with MTCA. Further, my own daughter, now a BFA in MT graduate, did not use a national coach.
However, CoachC is the owner of MTCA and so I think she knows what she is talking about with regard to MTCA acting coaching services, Further, many of the acting coaches at MTCA have a BFA or an MFA in ACTING, not MT. As well, many MTCA clients/applicants go onto BFA in ACTING Programs and were seeking that in the first place.
@soozievt, when I stated that “they are all good at this level,” I was referring to the majority who are applying who are “that good.” I think most of the kids who are pursuing this at the collegiate level have somewhat of a clue if they have what it takes. Most private coaches will tell them or their parents (who foot the bill) if they are fooling themselves. Of course, there are a small percentage of kids who submit and are not artistically qualified, but I would tend to think that is the exception and not the rule. I know it’s about fit, and yes you have to have a well-balanced list, but we’ve all heard the stories of the kids who are extremely talented but get no offers or who passed every pre-screen but didn’t get a yes from any live audition or who failed every pre-screen but then make a program from walk-ins at one of the unifides. It can certainly seem pretty random, especially when you’re going through it. I am grateful that my DS passed the majority of his pre-screens and has early acceptances, and I feel horrible for some of the journeys that I am hearing about this year. Prescreens seemed more plentiful and harder to pass. I feel it is a tool that is evolving and schools are using it in various ways to whittle the ever-increasing applicant pool.
@NYKaren - i have seen more than one kid trying to pursue theater at the college level who had NO clue that they did not have the skills to play at that level until the results were all in…
MTCA coaches are only hired for what they are expertly qualified to do both by experience and degree/training. MTCA has 4 southern California-based coaches, with all the rest being NYC-based. Of the southern California coaches, 3 have MFAs in Acting and coach monologues and one has an MFA in MT and coaches dance. (All of the coaches’ bios are detailed on the MTCA website.) One of the MFA Acting coaches (trained at USD/Old Globe with subsequent extensive play credits) also has an undergrad in MT from Elon and Broadway musical credits earned before she went to grad school for her MFA, so she coaches songs occasionally in addition to focusing on monologue coaching.
As for why there is MT but not acting in the name MTCA: during the name brainstorming meeting with the group of collaborative teaching artists who were slowly becoming something more formalized, the focus was on coming up with a clear but catchy acronym - which MTCA most certainly is NOT! It is admittedly dumb that acting is not also prominent in the title - and I swear on all things that are healthy voice-related that I truly have no recollection of why MTCA was the chosen name! MTCA has always had students who are solely acting-focused. By the time it was pointed out that the name was only partially representing what MTCA does, the name MTCA was known and so it became tricky to change it. A look at the website will show how many MTCA students were admitted to and attend top acting programs.
This post is not to promote MTCA services, nor was my first post on this topic. In fact, I’m almost sure this is the 1st time I’ve posted about MTCA in the 12 years I’ve been on this board. There are other effective coaches besides MTCA and each works with a unique mission and vision of the college audition process, including what is meant by the term coaching. In my experience, students and parents do their research and find the fit that is best for them and generally have very good experiences with any of the coaches mentioned on this board. I also don’t think a coach is necessary to be successful in this process. A coach can be immensely helpful, but some students do have the already-developed skills, knowledgeable home teachers, and organizational savvy (read: parents :)- ) needed to do very well. For those who are lacking in one or more than one of these areas, coaches can save time, stress, and yes, even money - and help guide a student to having college choices they’re excited about in the end.
I now return to my regularly-scheduled humidifier and other voice-related postings only!
@NYKaren I agree with @soozievt on many of her points. As someone who has degrees in both MT and arts admin, and who has spent time on both sides of the table for a variety of processes (although not the college audition process), these admin assistants likely have extensive artistic knowledge of their own, coupled with deep knowledge of the program that they interact with every day in the course of their work. Just because someone is an administrative assistant doesn’t mean that they’re not qualified to evaluate talent.
Or maybe they aren’t qualified, and talented kids from far and wide are missing out on getting into great programs, and it all would have been different if someone else had watched their prescreen. But this is the point I was trying to make with this my initial post–I’ve often had that thought of “oh, I would have gotten the callback/booked this show if I had been in front of the actual casting director instead of the intern,” “oh, only the company manager was in the room, it would have been different if someone from artistic leadership had been there,” etc etc. It would be very easy for me to let those thoughts spiral and for me to have to live with a lot of bitterness in my day-to-day life (because the life your children have chosen for themselves is NOT easy, the rejection is tough for all of us, even those of us who won’t admit it, even those of us who have great strategies to manage it). I’ve walked out of auditions without a callback for roles that I know I’m perfect for (roles I’ve played before), and I just have to shrug my shoulders and say “well, they know what they want, and it’s not me,” and truly believe that, and then let go of the audition. It’s really easy to want to blame something (or someone!) when things don’t go your way in an audition, but believe me when I say that it’s easier in the long run to believe that the people behind the table or watching your video (whoever they are) know what they’re doing. This way of thinking will keep your child from thinking that the industry is out to get them, which will then protect them (in part) from burnout.
@CanadianMTgirl, I guess that’s why my DS shrugs these things off. He’s in this business not me. It is what it is. In no way was I implying that the Admins don’t have any knowledge of talent. I was only saying that I was surprised it wasn’t dept heads or professors that were watching the pre-screens .Live and learn. As they say, they all end up where they are supposed to be!
Hi everyone. I printed and let DD read the post from @SoCalPops and that was quote motivating for her. Used your feedback to broker a couple of serious conversations while we have some down time.
@artsmomof4@artandtechmom DD wanted to see how a coach could help with specific needs, so we have a consult scheduled. The earliest available date was early February, so your advice to “start now” was absolutely timely.
In the meantime we are trying to sketch an outline based on your collected experiences. Thank you so much!
To go back to a question that was previously asked and discussed about doing a walk-in for a school where you failed a pre-screen, based on this latest discussion, if that school had “admins” - although I have a feeling “admin” is a poor identifier - make the decisions on who passes pre-screens, with the ultimate decisions being made by professors at the auditions, why wouldn’t it be okay for someone who failed a pre-screen take a chance on a walk-in. Although that “admin” might have seen the pre-screen and they may or may not be in the audition room, my guess is they wouldn’t necessarily even remember that student based on the number of pre-screens they review. I say take a chance. If you want to go to a particular school, be tenacious. This is your one chance to make a stand. As all of us adults know, if you want to follow your dreams, whatever they may be, you have to take chances.
I’m not in this business, but this has worked for me in my life. And if in the interview process, which I’m hoping is after you at least sing, you say, “I failed my pre-screen, but this school has been my dream school and I knew I needed to try again,” they may be impressed at your willingness to put yourself out there, and who knows. I have a special needs child who is non-verbal, meaning she cannot carry on a conversation with you, but when she fails at something, she says “Try again,” and she tries again. So that has become our family motto, if you will. Don’t get frustrated, just try again.
@NYKaren I have to disagree with your statement “Most private coaches will tell them or their parents (who foot the bill) if they are fooling themselves.” I have seen countless kids who are never told the truth by their “pay-to-participate” programs and coaches. Even the college audition coaches will tell you it’s not their job to tell your child if they are competitive. The truth is, I don’t think any of our kids really knew what their real competition looked like until they saw it up close. I know several kids who had leads in all the school plays, lots of community theater credits and even professional work who didn’t get into a single MT program out of dozens of applications. I think it was partly about their college list, but I also feel that these kids were not as talented as they were led to believe. Things like being a suck-up and having strong ties to the local theatre community is helpful when you are in that bubble, but once you break loose into the real world it’s a whole different ball game.
@collegemom2000, I know I asked several coaches at various times if my DS was good enough. My hubby did the same. Maybe others don’t do this but I felt I needed to know. And how did I know if they were blowing smoke? I didn’t. Of course you don’t know the competition until you go to that first big college audition. And yes, there are varying levels of “good” but even that girl you mentioned above had to have been somewhat “good” if she had professional credits. You have to have a balanced list and trust in yourself.
@BWmama I’m of the same mindset. If it’s REALLY the school they want, and have the opportunity to try again, why not? Particularly if the student isn’t thrilled with their prescreen results (thinking technical, not talent). What’s the worst that’s going to happen…they get turned away again…but at least they know they tried. And I’m sure it has happened at Combines, where a student has failed a prescreen but ended up at an open call in front of all the schools at once. Whether or not there was a different result from the original prescreen no, would be an interesting story.(I’m thinking it has to have happened at least once!)
@NYKaren yes a balanced list is definitely the ticket. I’m not disagreeing with that. I am just telling you based on our experience having done this last year, that many people go into these auditions not prepared for the level of talent that is truly out there…my child included. She was lucky to get into a handful of excellent MT programs, but only because her list was realistic, as you point out. But in terms of only kids at a competitive level auditioning, that simply isn’t true.
I think everyone sees things differently and level of talent is a judgement call which we all make based upon our own experience. I can say that I know of several kids of limited talent and/or training (imo of course) who auditioned for MT college programs. I think it’s a little like college apps - colleges have more qualified applicants than spaces but have more applicants than are qualified. Prescreens don’t just screen for talent, especially for small programs. some schools like Michigan have pretty strict guidelines to their application and get so many that they may just ask a junior staff member to screen the videos for compliance. Then there’s “type”. If a non-teacher is previewing prescreens, I would assume the calls they make are on objective and not subjective criteria.
@collegemom2000, i’m just saying the majority of kids auditioning are qualified.
@CaMom13, I have heard on other boards/threads that prescreens do screen for compliance, type, etc. But in real life, casting calls do screen on type, etc so it is a first introduction to how things will be if they choose to pursue theatre
@toowonderful that does beg the question, how do you know if you’re good enough to pursue this? Especially if you haven’t done anything outside of school.
Further, many of the acting coaches at MTCA have a BFA or an MFA in ACTING, not MT. As well, many MTCA clients/applicants go onto BFA in ACTING Programs and were seeking that in the first place.
It is admittedly dumb that acting is not also prominent in the title - and I swear on all things that are healthy voice-related that I truly have no recollection of why MTCA was the chosen name! MTCA has always had students who are solely acting-focused. By the time it was pointed out that the name was only partially representing what MTCA does, the name MTCA was known and so it became tricky to change it. A look at the website will show how many MTCA students were admitted to and attend top acting programs.