I went through the audition process this year, and like many of my peers my dream school was The University of Michigan for Musical Theatre. While I eventually did not get into this years group, I did have the privilege to receive an in-person audition invitation. I have committed to a program, however, was wondering about the transfer rates for Umich’s MT program. I am a female afro-latina and the connections and support this program provides is, to me, incomparable. How many do they take a year, and what do they look for when selecting applications? Additionally, how many transfers apply each year? Any information would be helpful, thank you all so much!
OCU is a Bachelor of Music program -much more demanding than a BFA so the training is fantastic. Where I think the program goes wrong is with its biases - while my kid was one of the lucky few, it is very apparent that the program favors a small clique of kids who do the camps, pageants etc. There are tons of opportunities in OKC outside the school also, but when your resume is not filled with school shows, its very hard to compete in that smaller community. The school picks their favs before the freshman arrive and kids can do almost nothing to break out after that. I would simply not recommend this school. There is fantastic training elsewhere that have fewer biases.
I have never heard of a BM degree being much more demanding than a BFA degree. Based on my knowledge of BM and BFA degrees (at any college), what differs is the coursework, but not how demanding such a specialized degree program can be.
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MUCH more demanding! Upper level music theory, conducting, 3 years of piano just to make a few mandatory classes for a BM (and if your music theory is not up to speed at OCU kids need to take Saturday boot camp and forego eligibility for shows)- the curriculum is designed to have students able to sight read music at auditions….compare the mandatory classes side by side. If your MT kid has not played an instrument or done sight reading, the BM degree will be more challenging by far.
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Sorry, but I don’t buy that argument. You are discussing a specific skill…sight reading. BM and BFA degree programs differ in terms of the coursework and the skills taught. Both may teach sight reading, but at a BM program, that will have greater emphasis because it is a music degree. That doesn’t make the program much more demanding. It simply emphasizes and teaches a different array of courses. A BFA program may have m ore acting or dance classes, for example. That doesn’t make it less demanding of a program.
My own kid graduated from a BFA program. I would consider it very demanding. By the way, she placed out of all the music theory classes and could sight read before entering college (which she entered at 16) and played two instruments. She is not unique as a BFA student who could sight read music. She has also been employed in two BFA programs as an accompanist in MT classes which require sight reading on piano. But that is besides the point. Both degree programs have demanding curriculums. Some even have demanding liberal arts courses in the mix. I cannot imagine anyone in the industry saying a BM is more demanding than a BFA. The emphasis on the coursework and skills taught will differ.
Lastly, most programs in MT, no matter the degree name, try to train students to sight read music at auditions.
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You are taking this personally about your own kid. If she could sight read etc she would have been fine in a BM program like OCU. Congrats that she tested out of theory. Many don’t. I don’t really care if you “buy my argument”. Research the differences between the BM and BFA programs. A BM is simply a more demanding degree and provides more career paths than simply MT. It trains not only for MT career but one in teaching and music generally. Not speaking about your child’s path or whether one degree is better but it is simply that a BM degree is (and especially a conservatory program like OCU) more rigorous. And yes, OCU is a liberal arts school with broad course requirements on top of the BM courses. This is a thread about picking schools. My kid picked OCU and was accepted at Pace, NYU , Emerson, Ithaca and Marymount and chose OCU specifically for the more rigorous BM requirements. She did this over 5 years ago and does not regret the choice. I was pointing out that OCU has a biased performance program and the BM itself creates obstacles to performance opportunities. Not sure why this seems to hit a nerve with you. In any event, best wishes for your child’s path.
@dmom26. Forget my own kid. I only gave her as an example. She did a BFA program in MT, though she now also composes original musicals and is also a songwriter on a major record label and so her music training was fine.
I brought it up, not truly as a parent. I am also a college counselor and advise many pursuing MT degree programs. In my 20 year career doing this, I have never heard of a BM being more rigorous than a BFA. The thrusts of each program differs. If you are talking simply music theory, yes, a BM program has more courses in that realm than a BFA degree program. A BFA degree will have more coursework typically in acting or dance than a BM (this is a generalization and truly one must compare curriculums from each specific college). If you are talking about music theory, a BM does more with that than most BFA programs, though BFA programs do require training in it. But you made a much bigger statement that an entire BM program is much more demanding than a BFA program and I don’t believe that to be true whatsoever. You can compare elements of what is emphasized more in one program over another program, but the overall degree in one OR the other is not more rigorous or demanding.
I also don’t agree with your statement that a BM degree offers more career paths than a BFA in MT degree! I know plenty of BFA in MT graduates, even from just my own daughter’s program whom she attended school with who now do a variety of careers including starring in Broadway and Off Broadway musicals, starring in TV shows and in movies, choreographing on Broadway, directing, making records, songwriting, creating original musicals, musical directing, teaching, coaching, producing musicals, and many working in fields outside the MT world. I have never noticed a difference in the many various career paths that students from BM in MT programs vs. BFA in MT programs have taken.
Back to my own kid as but one example…she can do more than perform in musicals, though she does that professionally too. In the music world (not the MT world), she is a singer/songwriter with regular concerts in NYC and is a signed artist on a major record label. In MT, she has written original musicals, as well as been the composer/lyricist of musicals. She has musically directed. Some of. her shows are licensed and performed around the US and internationally. She has played instruments on stage. Her music background is more than solid coming from a BFA degree program.
In my view, those coming out of both BM and BFA degree programs can have a multi-skill set and can and do pursue a variety of career paths. In fact, I think one reason my daughter has made a living since graduating her BFA program at age 20, in NYC, is due to having a multi-skill set. That can be true if one has graduated from a BFA, BM, or a BA degree program. They are all demanding in their own way, but with difference in curriculum.
While I did give my own kid as ONE example, I am sharing a viewpoint NOT based on her alone, but on my work as a college counselor advising MT applicants for years, as well as observing my daughter’s peers who have MT degrees.
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Small world! I am a college counselor also. Will simply have to agree to disagree. I don’t think you have truly looked into the programs like OCU in a detailed way. We used specialized musical theatre college counseling for our child. These specialized counselors agreed that the OCU style conservatory BM degree was more rigorous than the BFA programs to which she had been accepted and warned us to prepare in the summer before freshman year, which we did. No students test out of theory as it’s a required course for 3 years. You continue to point to your own child’s accomplishments and nothing I have said here is meant to diminish her. The programs are very different and if you are counseling kids in this area I suggest you speak to the head of the program to understand the difference in this style of MT degree. I am not necessarily a fan of the entirety of the OCU program but you cannot argue its rigor. You simply can’t. Cheers
I am a college counselor who has specialty in MT admissions, just to clarify.
You state that one cannot argue the rigor of OCU’s MT program. Well, I am NOT arguing the rigor of OCU’s BM in MT program! Nor am I claiming that BFA in MT programs are more rigorous than BM ones (they are not). I am familiar with the curriculums. Both are rigorous with different emphases in terms of the coursework.
Again, in terms of MT, a BM degree has more Music Theory course requirements (example, OCU has 3 years of it and my daughters program had 2 years of it). That is a difference in that one subject/skill area. But the overall curriculum is not more rigorous in one degree program over another. A BM has a heavier emphasis on music and a BFA typically has equal emphases on music, acting, and dance (variations about at all programs of course).
I know you are not diminishing my own child whatsoever. No worries. I gave her peers as an example of the various careers that they are doing as you claimed that there are more career paths available to a BM graduate than a BFA one. I mentioned my own kid because she does a great deal in the music field even though she was in a BFA program. Her training prepared her just fine to have a career in music. It was just meant as one example, and I, well, know her, LOL.
If your daughter needed to prepare prior to entering her BM program, perhaps it wasn’t because OCU is more rigorous than BFA in MT programs, but maybe your daughter did not have a. lot of music theory or sight reading or instrumental music prior to college. And so I understand because people enter such programs with different training prior to college. I don’t think my kid would have found the music theory classes too difficult in a BM program because she placed out of 2 full years of music theory and keyboarding when she entered college at 16. But someone with no music theory background or skill on an instrument would have found those classes in a BFA or BM program to be very challenging. My own kid never took music theory in high school as our high school did not offer it. My daughters’ piano teacher always emphasized music theory and that is the only training she had in it and even though she is a songwriter, musician, and composer of musicals, she had no training in college in that. So, let’s remember, every student enters these programs with certain skills or training and will find various aspects of a BM OR a BFA quite challenging. If the student has no prior dance training, then they are going to find the dance in a BFA program to be challenging. My kid had a ton of dance training growing up and so went in prepared in that area. We did not have acting training where she grew up and so she relished in all of that in her BFA program, which I believe typically has more acting training than a BM program.
However, I would never ever claim a BFA is more rigorous than a BM or that a BFA opens more career options than a BM. And I still don’t believe one is more rigorous than another. I think the skills and curricula differ and that kids come into each program with various training and skills and will find certain aspects to be very rigorous if they have less training in it to begin with (ie., music theory or ballet).
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You are incredibly defensive of your kid’s program. I cannot believe you are a college counselor for MT as you are not objective at all. I have my view. You have yours. I think you are wrong and you think I am wrong. I don’t agree with your assessment of the BM vs the BFA and I cannot point to another counsellor I have spoken to who agrees with you. Continue to defend your position here all you want. I have nothing to defend. I have done my homework. So did my kid. I encourage others reading this to do likewise. Won’t be returning to this pointless attempt to defend your kid’s path that you are intent on. You have zero objectivity for some reason and that is why we contracted out so that we would not bias our process with my background. Good luck to you and your child. PS…my child did not test out of music theory as you cannot in a BM program. That is the point. She also has years of piano training. My child has worked professionally in MT since she was 6 both here in the US and overseas. This is not a competition, but if it was….
My viewpoint, as stated, is that both BFA and BM programs in MT are rigorous and not one more than the other. So, I don’t think I am showing a bias and am not saying that BFA is more rigorous (it is not). My viewpoint is that both degree programs can result in a variety of careers. Your viewpoint, as stated, is the one that comes across as biased (in MY view) that a BM degree is MUCH more rigorous than a BFA degree in MT and that a BM degree prepares students to pursue more types of careers. I think I’m being pretty objective on my stance. I don’t favor one over the other and it is a matter of which curricular emphases an applicant may wish to do in college. I’m not promoting my kid’s program (I didn’t even name it). I think your statement comes across as more subjective.
I am sure you did your homework and your daughter did too. I am not doubting you whatsoever.
As a professional college counselor of 20 years and an educator for 44 years, I’ve also done my homework. I don’t think your view is fact, but more of a viewpoint and you are surely entitled to it. We simply don’t agree on that view.
While I gave my own kid as an example in relation to your point about BFA vs BM programs and variety of careers one can be prepared for if obtaining a BM vs. a BFA, my opinion on this topic is not based on her experience or her unnamed program, but based on my own research and experience with many MT colleges and their graduates.
If your daughter loved her program, that is all that matters, in my view. On a personal end, I’m happy that my daughter loved her program and I didnt’ care which one she picked to attend. OCU is very well regarded! I have recommended it many times to applicants. You state in another post that you don’t recommend this program, but I hope your daughter still loved it. So much about a program is the right fit for the student.
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And just to confuse things further, some schools (CMU for example) only issue BFA degrees, in both the MT and Music performance majors!
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