The Clinton Iraq Plan - Keep Troops There Permanently

<p>Interesteddad, I don’t think the Garlands, and 1soccermoms, of the world should be ignored. If enough people feel their way, Clinton won’t win. </p>

<p>It disappoints me that the candidates are already tiered.</p>

<p>First tier, Hillary and Obama.</p>

<p>Second tier, Edwards.</p>

<p>Third tier, Richardson, Dodd, and Biden.</p>

<p>4th tier, Kucinich and everybody else.</p>

<p>This week, Dodd came out and said he wanted a bailout for the people involved in the sub-primes loans.</p>

<p>My reaction is no, they invested as adults, they take the consequences. No bailout. So, I have quickly lost interest in Dodd.</p>

<p>The big galoot became a two-term president of the US.</p>

<p>Pelosi’s husband died. That’s how she came into office.</p>

<p>She has had a nice career too.</p>

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<p>Okay–can’t stand it–you’re kidding, right??? :confused:</p>

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<p>I’m not ignoring it. I just think that we have to wait until people start evaluating candidates based on the actual campaign, rather than pre-existing media stereotypes and perceptions.</p>

<p>For example, based on pre-existing perceptions a year before the NH primary, Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton would have never been elected president. </p>

<p>The system works because we get to see these candidates in the intense pressure cooker of a campaign. The important judgements will be made after a year or so of that.</p>

<p>I haven’t decided who I will vote for in the Democratic primary. I don’t even know who will still be in the race. Heck, I haven’t even decided which primary to vote in. I once voted for Buchanon in the Mass. Republican Primary because the Democratic race had already been decided and I thought the more votes Buchanon got (shortly after the images of him brandishing rifles), the worse for the Republicans.</p>

<p>I haven’t really decided either. I’m leaning towards Edwards, but I want to see how much he is going to raise taxes. </p>

<p>I’m sure some people won’t vote for him because of his hair.</p>

<p>No one has a clue as to what the primary in my state will look like, whether there will be separate parties, or whether we will even have one.</p>

<p>Really really good looking was a Zoolander joke, HS, but I have friends who are FOBs from way back. They are female. They say that Billy is and was, sex on a stick. I’m gonna take their word for it. Some of them know certifiably sexy movies stars.</p>

<p>Billy was destined to be President with or without her. He made his partner selection very judiciously and then ruthlessly kept her on message to the greater good of his ambition. Apparently, she isn’t that hard to manipulate.</p>

<p>Fellas, stick your hand up if you’re married to a brilliant woman who would have put up with those shenaigans and humiliations. </p>

<p>Yeah, didn’t think your wives were so pliable.</p>

<p>I should love her. I should be her ideal voter. Go figure.</p>

<p>That’s interesting, because I *should<a href=“according%20to%20some”>/i</a> hate her, but I can’t. Something deep inside of me is even going to feel sorry for her if she doesn’t get the nomination. I’m still working on figuring out why I feel that way…</p>

<p>“Yeah, I’m fer the war, I’m agin the war, for it, agin it…”</p>

<p>No, the main point is why the “fer the war, I’m agin the war” crowd - so astute and intelligent and experienced - were so easy to hoodwink to begin with (and how close and tuned in was Hillary to Bill the hoodwinker.)</p>

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<p>The hair is just symptomatic of a larger empty-suit, Elmer Gantry, TV preacher schuckster thing. Watch him sometime when all the candidates are on the stage together, waving to the crowd and making small talk. He is standing by himself, striking “candidate” poses that he has perfected in the mirror – the thumbs up. The hand thrust in pocket gazing towards the horizon. He looks like he’s doing a body-builder routine or showing off for Tyra on America’s Next Top Model. Another candidate can walk over and start talking to him and he continues his well-rehearsed posing routine.</p>

<p>I accept that politicians are a vain lot, but he takes it to new heights.</p>

<p>“He looks like he’s doing a body-builder routine or showing off for Tyra on America’s Next Top Model. Another candidate can walk over and start talking to him and he continues his well-rehearsed posing routine.”</p>

<p>Funny! I think of him as “mini-Bill”, and they’d make a great wrasslin’ tag-team.</p>

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<p>Or, did she ruthlessly keep Billy on message to the greater good of her ambition? Billy’s the natural glad hander – sex on a stick in a larger sense. She’s always been the ruthless political tactician. Hence, my LBJ analogies.</p>

<p>Funny! I think of him as “mini-Bill”, and they’d make a great wrestling tag-team.</p>

<p>Bill is just naturally charismatic to the bone. I suspect that he was a charmer from the day he was born. Studied though he may have been, it made it look effortless. As Keith Richards once said about Gram Parsons, “Whereever he went, he just made the ladies cry…”</p>

<p>Edwards is a more of a cardboard cutout. It’s really hillarious to see his “pose” routine on a crowded stage. Zoolander is a really good analogy.</p>

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<p>Because the mood of the country in the immediate post 9-11 aftermath made it futile (and politically suicidal) to be ag’in the war in late 2002. It’s not difficult to understand.</p>

<p>You try to suggest that Clinton’s Iraq policies and Bush’s Iraq policies were the same. They weren’t. I have never seen even a hint that Clinton had any intention of a ground invasion of Iraq.</p>

<p>“Bill is just naturally charismatic to the bone.”</p>

<p>Reminds me a lot of Idi. The most charismatic person I ever saw was neither of them, however, but Indira Gandhi, who seemed to travel on a sun-faced palanquin.</p>

<p>“Because the mood of the country in the immediate post 9-11 aftermath made it futile (and politically suicidal) to be ag’in the war in late 2002. It’s not difficult to understand.”</p>

<p>By the time, Bush came 'round, the Dems couldn’t repudiate the (lack of) intelligence even if they’d wanted to - they’d signed on to the lies in 1998:</p>

<p>Senator Biden: </p>

<p>"An asymmetric capability of nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons gives an otherwise weak country the power to intimidate and blackmail. We risk sending a dangerous signal to other would-be proliferators if we do not respond decisively to Iraq’s transgressions. [Congressional Record, 2/12/98]. </p>

<p>Senator Lieberman: </p>

<p>"Today, the threat may not be as clear to other nations of the world, but its consequences are even more devastating potentially than the real threat, than the realized pain of the invasion of Kuwait in 1990, because the damage that can be inflicted by Saddam Hussein and Iraq, under his leadership, with weapons of mass destruction is incalculable; it is enormous. . . . " [Congressional Record, 2/12/98]. </p>

<p>Senator Levin: </p>

<p>“Mr. President, Saddam Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction programs and the means to deliver them are a menace to international peace and security. They pose a threat to Iraq’s neighbors, to U.S. forces in the Gulf region, to the world’s energy supplies, and to the integrity and credibility of the United Nations Security Council. . . . The use of military force may not result in that desired result but it will serve to degrade Saddam Hussein’s ability to develop weapons of mass destruction and to threaten international peace and security. Although not as useful as inspection and destruction, it is still a worthy goal” [Congressional Record, 2/12/98]. </p>

<p>Senator Kerry: </p>

<p>"Mr. President, we have every reason to believe that Saddam Hussein will continue to do everything in his power to further develop weapons of mass destruction and the ability to deliver those weapons, and that he will use those weapons without concern or pangs of conscience if ever and whenever his own calculations persuade him it is in his interests to do so. . . . " [Congressional Record, 3/13/98.] </p>

<p>Al Gore: </p>

<p>“There should be no doubt, Saddam’s ability to produce and deliver weapons of mass destruction poses a grave threat to the peace of that region and the security of the world. . …” (February 1998)</p>

<p>There wasn’t an iota of evidence that Saddam either possessed, was producing, or was prepared to deliver weapons of mass destruction toward the U.S. at any time between 1992-1998. For almost five of those years, inspectors kept on saying the same thing. It was created from whole (Democratic) cloth.</p>

<p>Just think. I get to vote in the NH primary! So yeah, you can’t ignore the sokkermoms of the world yet. Hillary has been to my “neck of the woods” at least three times. She will be here many many more times. <em>sigh</em></p>

<p>mini:</p>

<p>We’ve been over this ground before. The context of the 1998 quotes was Sadaam kicking the UN inspectors out, a point at which the US intelligence “went dark” in Iraq. Remember, the UN inspectors returned in December 2002, had a great deal of cooperation from Sadaam’s people, and reported that they had found nothing.</p>

<p>The critics of the Chalabi-fed WMD intelligence were effectively silenced by the Bush administration, both to the public and to the Congress.</p>

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<p>She had quite the lovefest at the big Democratic Party Poo-bah gathering last Saturday in New Hampshire. An even more impressive performance than her firefighter speech. It was the official unveiling of the “you are invisible” stump speech. She thanked basically every Democratic hack in the state by name. The video from that one is on the C-Span website as well.</p>

<p>She played the female-card hard. And, even dredged up allusions to JFK’s appearance before the same dinner in 1959.</p>

<p>“We’ve been over this ground before. The context of the 1998 quotes was Sadaam kicking the UN inspectors out, a point at which the US intelligence “went dark” in Iraq.”</p>

<p>According to every single one of the quotes, the “intelligence” didn’t go dark. Rather, every single one of those Democrats quoted above were sold the Clinton/Tenet lie that there were WMD, that more were being produced, that delivery systems were being prepared, that there were plans to use them, and that military intervention would be required to take 'em out. </p>

<p>The critics of the intelligence (precious few) were effectively silenced by the Clinton Administration in 1998, and were virtually never to rear their heads again except under George Bush (Hans Blix, Scott Ridder, El-Baradei - Blix and El-Baradei continued to run inspections right up until 2003, until ordered out by Bush). But no one was going to believe them, having bought into the Clinton coverup.</p>

<p>Interesteddad, it reads to me like you saw Edwards onstage with other candidates before, in person.</p>

<p>You’re not painting a pretty picture.</p>

<p>I have seen Bill Clinton onstage. Most charismatic person I have ever seen.</p>

<p>Not that I have seen thousands of famous people, but he was the most charismatic, a totally different level.</p>