<p>I don’t see the comparison.</p>
<p>As for the intelligence being wrong, ok. We were wrong about bringing democracy to the region also. So, let’s cut our losses and leave.</p>
<p>mini</p>
<p>“Madame Mendaciousness” – lol !</p>
<p>“Democracy in the region” is an oxymoron if there ever was one. I think that was one of the sorriest excuses for this debacle yet.</p>
<p>“It’s not exactly good news that the intelligence was so wrong – but I don’t see anyone deliberately misleading Congress or the President.”</p>
<p>You’ve got it backwards: the made-up Clinton/Tenet intelligence was used to deliberately mislead Congress, starting with the “very knowledgeable Democrats”.</p>
<p>Lest we forget:</p>
<p>Senator Biden:</p>
<p>"An asymmetric capability of nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons gives an otherwise weak country the power to intimidate and blackmail. We risk sending a dangerous signal to other would-be proliferators if we do not respond decisively to Iraq’s transgressions. [Congressional Record, 2/12/98].</p>
<p>Senator Lieberman:</p>
<p>"Today, the threat may not be as clear to other nations of the world, but its consequences are even more devastating potentially than the real threat, than the realized pain of the invasion of Kuwait in 1990, because the damage that can be inflicted by Saddam Hussein and Iraq, under his leadership, with weapons of mass destruction is incalculable; it is enormous. . . . " [Congressional Record, 2/12/98].</p>
<p>Senator Levin:</p>
<p>“Mr. President, Saddam Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction programs and the means to deliver them are a menace to international peace and security. They pose a threat to Iraq’s neighbors, to U.S. forces in the Gulf region, to the world’s energy supplies, and to the integrity and credibility of the United Nations Security Council. . . . The use of military force may not result in that desired result but it will serve to degrade Saddam Hussein’s ability to develop weapons of mass destruction and to threaten international peace and security. Although not as useful as inspection and destruction, it is still a worthy goal” [Congressional Record, 2/12/98].</p>
<p>Senator Kerry:</p>
<p>"Mr. President, we have every reason to believe that Saddam Hussein will continue to do everything in his power to further develop weapons of mass destruction and the ability to deliver those weapons, and that he will use those weapons without concern or pangs of conscience if ever and whenever his own calculations persuade him it is in his interests to do so. . . . " [Congressional Record, 3/13/98.]</p>
<p>Al Gore:</p>
<p>“There should be no doubt, Saddam’s ability to produce and deliver weapons of mass destruction poses a grave threat to the peace of that region and the security of the world. . …” (February 1998)</p>
<p>There wasn’t an iota of evidence that Saddam either possessed, was producing, or was prepared to deliver weapons of mass destruction toward the U.S. at any time between 1992-1998. For almost five of those years, inspectors kept on saying the same thing, even as the Clinton genocide proceeded. It was created from whole (Democratic) cloth, and when questioned, resulted in the U.S. kicking out the inspectors in December 1998, to make way for the Christmas bombings. </p>
<p>Of course, it wasn’t the first set of lies, nor the last. Powell’s predates it. And now we have General Betrayus the AKLCS lies in October 2004, published in the Washington Post for all to see, even while he enabled Al-Qaeda to gain tens of millions of dollars in American weapons, in betrayal of his own troops. Ever notice to this day, when they claim to capture Sunni weapons caches, they never tell us where their weapons came from?</p>
<p>Now let me be clear: I assume it is part of the job duties of generals and politicians and Secretaries of State to lie to us - they follow in a long tradition. But why is the current generation of them so bad at it?</p>
<p>" assume it is part of the job duties of generals and politicians and Secretaries of State to lie to us - they follow in a long tradition. But why is the current generation of them so bad at it?"</p>
<p>Because they actually believe the lies.</p>
<p>Oh, I doubt that. We know (at least according to Richard Armitage) that Colin Powell didn’t believe the lies he told - it was simply his job to sell. We can be pretty sure that Madame Mendaciousness didn’t believe her own lies - she is just not that dumb. From the little personal experience I had of him, I feel confident that Paul Wolfowitz didn’t believe the lies he told. General Betrayus was “on the ground” - he certainly couldn’t believe his 2004 lies, and didn’t feel it was even worth covering up the tens of millions of dollars in U.S. weapons that ended up in Al-Qaeda’s hands on his watch, and resulted in hundreds of American deaths.</p>
<p>At least initially, Bill Clinton didn’t think it necessary to lie about his genocide. They were rather public about it. Rather, he developed “reasons” for it (that had nothing to do with his real strategy, which was to pressure the Iraqi military to rebel). People who commit genocide always have “reasons”.</p>
<p>Later, when he and Tenet concocted the Big Lie of 1998, to provide cover for the genocide and to convince the “experienced” Democrats to support his bombing campaign, they knew it was untrue - they had information directly from the U.S. spies who had infiltrated the U.N. weapons inspections teams, and they had the testimony of the weapons inspectors themselves. What Tenet was concerned about was the “slam dunk”, the ease with which the Democrats could be bamboozled into supporting the bombing campaign and, later, the invasion of Iraq. </p>
<p>If our leaders really come to believe their own lies, we are in big trouble.</p>
<p>On second thought…</p>
<p>sjmom - you do know, of course, that David Kay WASN’T IN IRAQ FROM 1998 TO LATE 2002 - the U.S. (not Iraq, but the U.S.) had thrown him out. Any “intelligence” he possessed was second and third hand, fed to him by the Administration, not the other way around.</p>
<p>i’m almost sure dstark and I could have spent this money better.</p>
<p>bethievt, we couldn’t have done worse. :)</p>
<p>How was Marin County?</p>