<p>
</p>
<p>And accept to pay its price and bear the consequences in YOUR wallet? Is paying $8.00 per gallon really on your agenda? Higher taxes? Higher unemployment? </p>
<p>And, by the way, I would love the “socialized” public education of Europe with their systems based on school choice and freedom of education. Yes, bring it on … over the dead bodies of the NEA and AFT, I suppose.</p>
<p>We already pay $8 a gallon for gasoline - it’s just hidden in tax writeoffs and military budgets that protect the shipping lanes and the oil fields. The cost is “socialized”, for the usual corporate socialist beneficiaries.</p>
<p>we already pay over $3 a gal for gas. If more efficent cars were available and affordable- that wouldn’t be so bad.</p>
<p>I’m already paying a high % of after tax income for health care- & we have ins, union negotiated ins at that- AND we aren’t even sick! We just have bad eyesight & a high deductible.
However because we have higher income this year- because of forced overtime- less than $6,000 of medical expenses are deductible from taxes- ouch
Ironically- forced overtime will sustain increased health care costs down the road, Im sure in our case. A 53 year old man, can’t work at a demanding ( physically as well) job, in stressful conditions, only getting two days off a month without repercussions.</p>
<p>In Europe- they value their vacations and their workers.
[U.S</a>. workers enjoy far fewer vacation days than Europeans](<a href=“http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/webfeatures_snapshots_20050824]U.S”>U.S. workers enjoy far fewer vacation days than Europeans | Economic Policy Institute)</p>
<p>I LOVE what Obama says about our young people- he wants them to give back after receiving their education by participating in the community by joining the Peace Corps, Americcorps etc. That is what I have been saying for years!
( maybe I could play Josh Lyman? nah- Im not an attorney- thank goodness)
I am ready to make sacrifices for my community and my country/ all Bush wants us to do is spend money to * stimulate* the economy.
Whose economy?</p>
<p>“I am ready to make sacrifices for my community and my country/ all Bush wants us to do is spend money to stimulate the economy.”</p>
<p>It’s actually just another case of bipartisanship run amok.</p>
<p>xiggi,
paying $8 per gallon for gasoline wouldn’t be that painful if most of my commute was on public transportation. </p>
<p>higher taxes also wouldn’t hurt as much if i didn’t have to save as much as i do for my kids’ education, for retirement and for my inadequate corporate health care plan</p>
<p>but my ‘bring it on’ message was sarcastic. i certainly don’t expect americans to let go anytime soon of 60 years of propaganda that demonized any different economic approach, particularly anything having to do with a hybrid socialist system…</p>
<p>Funny. I always thought socialism had something to do with owning the means of production…</p>
<p>mini, well, it does – but in its hybrid european incarnation it’s not exclusive, right?</p>
<p>There is no such thing as a free lunch. This is a statement that cuts both ways. You can’t enjoy government services without paying taxes and you can’t cut taxes without curtailing the ability of government to serve the people. </p>
<p>The only argument for lowering taxes is that in a capitalist economy a private enterprise is more efficient at delivering services than government is. This is true more often than not, but it requires a truly free and capitalist economy. Today’s healthcare delivery system is NOT operating on free market principles. That is why it is not delivering services efficiently and that is why the costs are out of control. This may be an area where increased government involvement might actually improve efficiency. However, there are powerful interests that are profiting from the current inefficient system. These interests will not give up easily. It will be an interesting battle to watch.</p>
<p>“mini, well, it does – but in its hybrid european incarnation it’s not exclusive, right?”</p>
<p>Okay, so what means of production do the workers own?</p>
<p>“As someone quite familiar with the social programs of Europe, their public education, health care and retirement programs, I say, bring it on…”</p>
<p>Along with poor economic growth, less social mobility, and higher taxes.</p>
<p>It’s interesting to look at this issue from the broader perspective. </p>
<p>Anything short of the neocon / evangelical 30-year well orchestrated rise to control our government without any restrictions and there would still be a large segment of society blaming the liberals or some other scapegoat. Think back to 2000 if you disagree, when rhetoric was awash in “If conservatives could only take control…” The Bush adminstration has single handedly leveled the global playing field. The American Empire’s reign has come to an end - which is not a bad thing. We are now positioned to lead a new era free of “empires” rising and collapsing, now that we have collectively experienced the extraordinarily dangerous shortcomings of such shortsighted worldviews as the evangelical and neocon.</p>
<p>Even before it started, I said this adminstration would represent the last stand of a very dark form of consciousness that would allow us to collectively evolve to a higher level. John McCain’s emergence is very symbolic - a severing of the Republican Party from the conservative wing that took control of it. The same can be said for the rise of Obama. He represents a new progressive mindset free of the shackles of the 1960s. This is the generation that will end that turbulent era for good and usher in a new one.</p>
<p>I don’t think we’re entering another revolution, though. This generation is much more integrated with the mainstream - there is no need to drop out and smoke dope. This generation is fully capable of making change happen from within the mechanisms in place. It will not be a youth movement. It will be a movement by many under about 50 years old.</p>
<p>This is the dawn of a renaissance - the beginning of a fundamentally new way of perceiving science, economics, politics, and our very selves, on par with the 14th century. Political alliances that we once held tight to will shatter. The highest aspects of the evangelical / neocon worldview will align with the highest elements of the progressive worldview. Perhaps this is not coincidentally aligned with our approach to 2012, long predicted by the Mayans the year that the world as it had formed would end.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Well, it’s nice to see one keeping a sense of humor and sarcasm when analyzing the benefits of socialism, even in its hybrid state. </p>
<p>I’m afraid that I am not able to follow the historical reference of 60 years of propaganda.</p>
<p>xiggi – yup: when it comes to American politics, it IS best to keep a sense of humor (and sarcasm)!</p>
<p>As to 60 years of propaganda – since the end of WW2 Americans have been innundated by accounts of the superiority of the American system, and the inherent weaknesses of the European hybrid of socialism and capitalism. Today, the EU exceeds the US in job growth, in the health of its people, in access to higher education and in overall quality of life for its middle class.
Maybe they know something the Americans refuse to?</p>
<p>well… if I may, bring this thread back to the topic, which is Obama’s rise in popularity and good chance at being the Democrat nominee. </p>
<p>Is anyone else just sitting on the edge of their seat wondering what went on with Obama and Edwards at their meeting today? Who is Edwards going to endorse? And when?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Haha. They didn’t meet today. It was “postponed,” because the Obama folks (or Obama himself, I guess) didn’t like that there were helicopters circling overhead at the Edwards’ home-- too much of a “media circus.” So it’s been postponed and will be rescheduled. This time, they won’t tell anybody when it’s going to happen. ;)</p>
<p>aw geez, they’re not Britney Spears. Maybe with Britney’s life slowing down a bit the last few days, the media are looking for new scoops.</p>
<p>^Clearly. :)</p>
<p>Today, the EU exceeds the US in job growth"</p>
<p>Huh? </p>
<p>"Persistently high unemployment threatens the economic and social cohesion of the EU. European countries now have targets for raising employment and the participation ratio in the European labour market – but the most significant problems appear to be structural in nature and may take several years to resolve. </p>
<p>Europe’s labour market shows clear signs of market failure and this threatens living standards for millions of people in the years ahead"
[European</a> Unemployment - Introduction](<a href=“http://tutor2u.net/economics/content/topics/europe/unemployment_introduction.htm]European”>http://tutor2u.net/economics/content/topics/europe/unemployment_introduction.htm)</p>
<p>" the EU exceeds the US in access to higher education"</p>
<p>There’s much more to education than access.</p>
<p>"But one area where Europe falls short is higher education. Rankings of the world’s top universities are consistently dominated by U.S. institutions.</p>
<p>Lack of financing is a key weakness. Public and private spending on higher education in the European Union amounts to only 1.3% of the EU economyan average $12,000 per student. That compares with 3.3% of gross domestic product in the U.S., or $50,000 per student."</p>
<p>[Europe</a> Falls Short in Higher Education](<a href=“Businessweek - Bloomberg”>Businessweek - Bloomberg)</p>
<p>erewhon and others who commented on my comment about job growth:</p>
<p>[Another</a> jobs picture Europe vs. US (updated) - Paul Krugman - Op-Ed Columnist - New York Times Blog](<a href=“http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/07/another-jobs-picture-europe-vs-us/]Another”>Another jobs picture -- Europe vs. US (updated) - The New York Times)</p>
<p>"European countries have lower employment compared with population than the US; that’s a mixture of higher unemployment, lower female participation, and earlier retirement. But since 2000 the US employment record has been weak, while Europe has done much better at creating jobs. As a result, the gap has narrowed substantially. This gets at a theme I’ve written about in the past, and will surely return to: a lot of the American image of Europe as a moribund economy is, like, so 1990s. They’re doing better now — and we’re doing worse. "</p>
<p>here are some others:
[EurActiv.com</a> - EU overtakes US in productivity growth | EU - European Information on Innovation & Growth](<a href=“http://www.euractiv.com/en/innovation/eu-overtakes-us-productivity-growth/article-168129]EurActiv.com”>http://www.euractiv.com/en/innovation/eu-overtakes-us-productivity-growth/article-168129)
[Federal</a> Union | Europe v USA: whose economy wins?](<a href=“http://www.federalunion.org.uk/europe/060610EuropevsAmerica.shtml]Federal”>http://www.federalunion.org.uk/europe/060610EuropevsAmerica.shtml)</p>
<p>here’s another take on education
“Yet in the midst of this global trend, America has entered a period of stagnant higher education access and graduation rates. This downturn is perhaps not fully understood throughout the world or in the United States.”<a href=“http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/soe/cihe/newsletter/Number49/p4_Douglass.htm”>http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/soe/cihe/newsletter/Number49/p4_Douglass.htm</a></p>
<p>There are many ways to look at these issues. However it’s smug and silly to dismiss the fact that things are on the upswing in Europe – and downswing here.</p>