<p>So, enlighten us: what is the alternative to (traditional) liberal philosophy you espouse? How do you describe it?</p>
<p>I don’t have an alternative, nor would I prefer one. </p>
<p>I am considering the possibility that the liberal tradition might thicken and deepen to allow more than a passing condescension (“My God is better than your God”), a pat on the head whilst hoping “they” will just see the “light”, or simply ducking when the inevitable bullets fly. Right now, I do believe ours is a mile wide and an inch deep (Europes worsewait and see).</p>
<p>I have no answers…thought the collective wisdom might.</p>
<p>night, all.</p>
<p>Tell us FS- what is your ideal form of government, your way of dealing with people that can’t do it on their own, the sick, the hungry, the abused, the people that are discriminated against, companies that polute your neighborhood, people that aren’t allowed to vote, etc</p>
<p>It is lovely too critisize and say you don’t like liberals, but you never really say why</p>
<p>what do “liberals” say that bothers you so much- that we care about people, the earth, children, animals and the future </p>
<p>for someone who likes to put down a certain group of people, which you do at every chance, you don’t seem to have much to back up your criticisms</p>
<p>CGM, that has to be one of your better post - that is in its own genre, of course.</p>
<p>If, by now, you missed why some of us do not like liberals, you must have paid little attention. But what is new?</p>
<p>All you say, is that you don;t like liberals, but that is all</p>
<p>Ignore the questions, once again, typical response from you Xiggi and FS- no solitions no real reason, just a knee jerk reaction</p>
<p>come on, you don’t like liberals because we care about people </p>
<p>unless its becuase we care about the planet</p>
<p>or because we want people to have freedoms and choices</p>
<p>or because we realize that not everyone can take care of themselves</p>
<p>or that our government is not a theocracy</p>
<p>all you say is that you hate liberals, but never give a valid reason why- what exactly about liberals and their ideals do you hate so much</p>
<p>and if all you are going to do is critisize my posts, fine, means you don’t really have your own thoughts, just regurgitate what you hear</p>
<p>FountainSiren, since I’m on the West Coast where it’s past your bedtime I’ll leave this here for you to consider tomorrow: the liberal tradition has been working on this for hundreds of years. There’s nothing new in the current developments. I don’t know why you characterize “My God is better than your God” as condescension - it’s simply an accurate, if brief, description of the only actually experienced alternative to the “liberal tradition” you and Fish seemed to scorn. If people can’t agree to respect each other’s gods, beliefs, traditions, etc. “My God is better than your God” is simply the resulting conflict. It has happened that way over and over for millenia. Fish doesn’t propose an alternative any more than he accurately described the liberal tradition of respect; rather, he describes examples of illiberal thought and action and presents them as a straw man representing the “liberal state”. I’ll stand by what I said: Fish doesn’t know jack about respect as a central aspect of liberal thought. If I’m reading you correctly now your issue is that the liberal tradition in Western society isn’t deep enough for you (in the traditional sense of the word, of course.) If so, your beef isn’t with the “faith of liberalism”, it’s with the lack of faith in liberalism - a cause I’m afraid you have seemed to have allied yourself with at times.</p>
<p>I am quick to jump on this because I see opposition to traditional liberal philosophy gaining ground in America. Anecdote: On 9/12/2001 a religious activist wrote a letter to the editor of the local paper: “Will prayer be allowed in school NOW?” You may see that as a call for simple piety; I saw it as an “us vs. them” call to reinforce the superiority of Christianity over the “other.” Responding to a violent attack by persons motivated, at least in part, by extremist religious zeal by a call for more official recognition of the different religion which is dominant in our society struck me as unintentional irony - much as Fish’s essay did.</p>
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<p>You know, CGM, I realize that your game is to annoy others. Nah, I won’t criticize your post. It is simply not worth the time or effort. </p>
<p>I hope your little world is a happy one.</p>
<p>Kluge, </p>
<p>If I may, your position seems to read:
Liberalism, as a form of government and society, has reached its terminal point
it can go no higher, nor achieve any gains beyond as is and sold. </p>
<p>Im a bit more hopeful if naïve.</p>
<p>Ps.
I am unaware of any religious/cultural argument that involves "My God is better than your God, certainly not from the Islamic point of view, certainly not at issue in this debatenot even the murderers who flew into the WTC made such an absurd claim (there is no god but godLa illahha illallah–being the raison detre of Islam, even the renegadesnot, your preferred, my god is better than your god). </p>
<p>This is just the point you hope to argue in your MATRIX its a binary world of yes and no; liberal v conservative; dem v rep. It has no bearing on the real world of complex people with complex beliefs, hopes and fears but if it works for you ?</p>
<p>CGM, </p>
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