The Fireman - August CC Book Club Selection

[PlantMom]

6. Re the above question, is being immersed in “our current world” a drawback in terms of a novel’s longevity? Given the abundance of pop culture references, do you think The Fireman is a flash in the pan (no pun intended) or a novel that will survive the test of time?

I think this book is a total flash in the pan. NJTM posted (#44)

The whole concept of the Dragonscale was intriguing and imaginative, and some of Hill’s descriptions of it were rather beautiful. The guy can write, I think, but his dialogue tends to be childish except when peppered with gratuitous vulgarity. I really feel that he is somewhat lazy. To me, all his pop culture references were grating (couldn’t believe I was googling “Snuffleupagus”!) and often provided an easy shorthand that some readers may find cute, but which will date the book quickly.

.
Beyond the crudeness of the language, the gratuitous violence, the shallow characterizations and dialogue, there’s not much there beyond the beautiful, mysterious disease. I wish that he had stuck with and really plumbed the depths of dragonscale allowing us, or at least this reader, to understand what he, the author, really had imagined the disease did. I wish there had been more compassion or at least realistic interactions among the main characters. So much of the book has such a pessimistic outlook combined in an off-putting way with juvenile humor . For example, in a conversation between Harper and Rookwood on pg. 323,

“What Part of the end of the world is funny to you?”

“All of it. Especially the arrogant notion that the world will end just because humans might not make it through this century. We were never properly grateful for making it through the last century, as far as I’m concerned. Humanity is worse than flies. If even on dried nugget of offal survives the flames, we’ll be swarming all over it. Fighting about who owns it and selling the most fragrant chunks to the wealthy and the gullible. You’re afraid it’s the End Times because we’re surrounded by death and ruin. Nurse Willowes, don’t you know” Death and ruin is man’s preferred ecosystem. Did you ever read about the bacterium that thrives in volcanoes, right on the edge of boiling rock? That’s us. Humanity is a germ that thrives on the very edge of catastrophe."

This is the fireman–the good guy-- speaking, after he’s told Harper he spent the previous day teaching himself to “fart smoke rings in three different colors”. This book just doesn’t hang together or have anything lasting, imo, except the clever idea of the mysterious disease.

[NJTheatreMOM]

I’d forgotten (or repressed the memory of) that bitter speech of the Fireman’s, PlantMom. Maybe the author was setting us up not to be too surprised at John Rookwood’s demise, or his transformation into a non-flesh-and-blood form, or whatever the heck it was that happened to him.

[Caraid]

@bearpanther

2. Jakob and his truck: I kept thinking of the 1971 Spielberg movie Duel where the main character is stalked by the relentless driver of a tanker truck.

Thank you. I was also thinking of this movie when Jakob was chasing them down the highway, but couldn’t remember the name.

[Mary13]

@bearpanther

I don;t have the book in front of me but I thought there was some mention of John in his fire form being able to push the boat ahead or create favorable winds or something.

Yes, from the coda: “That falcon of flame was using its heat to drive hot air into the sail, speeding the boat to a giddy, almost dangerous clip.”

Interesting trivia: In 1979, Ray Bradbury wrote a coda to *Farenheit 451/i. It didn’t have to do with the plot of his novel, but with people’s responses to what he should cut out of it or change. His fury is directed at censorship, not at editing for length; nonetheless, it made me wonder if his rant reflects the fierce proprietary feeling that writers like King and Hill (and Catton and Tartt and Stephenson…) might feel about their works, regardless of the enormous number of words, characters, subplots and digressions –

For, let’s face it, digression is the soul of wit. Take philosophic asides away from Dante, Milton or Hamlet’s father’s ghost and what stays is dry bones. Laurence Sterne said it once: Digressions, incontestably, are the sunshine, the life, the soul of reading! Take them out and one cold eternal winter would reign in every page. Restore them to the writer–he steps forth like a bridegroom, bids them all-hail, brings in variety and forbids the appetite to fail.

In sum, do not insult me with the beheadings, finger-choppings or the lung-deflations you plan for my works. I need my head to shake or nod, my hand to wave or make into a fist, my lungs to shout or whisper with. I will not go gently onto a shelf, degutted, to become a non-book.

All you umpires, back to the bleachers. Referees, hit the showers. It’s my game. I pitch, I hit, I catch. I run the bases. At sunset I’ve won or lost. At sunrise, I’m out again, giving it the old try.

And no one can help me. Not even you.

You can read the entire coda here: http://www.cato.org/blog/censoring-ray-bradbury. Parts of it probably wouldn’t be considered PC today.

[ignatius]

Most author readings tend to be somewhat serious. I found myself laughing while watching this one. If you don’t want to listen to the reading, it ends at 27:05. (Hill reads aloud a section in which neither Harper nor John Rookwood play much of a part. Interesting choice and a good one, as it captures the fear of the uninfected and the measures some take as they try to stem the spread of Dragonscale.)

Then comes “intermission” - a sing-along - kazoo orchestra of three audience volunteers and a group sing of “Hey Jude” - or at least the Camp Wyndham version. Good stuff.

NJTM: During the Q&A, someone asks Hill to list his favorite books. He mentions one by David Mitchell, calling him the most gifted writer of their generation. (Mary: Lonesome Dove leads Hill’s list.)

Reading with Q&A - Joe Hill - The Fireman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSNE8HTwr34

[SouthJerseyChessMom]

Ugh, finally finished this rambling book. From the NY TIMES review, Mary13 linked with her excellent questions !

The Fireman” is big. It creates an alluringly weird world.

Dragonscale hooked me. Marlboro Man ( Mad Max), the endless 1980’s references, the repetition, total lack of editing wore me down.

I didn’t know what to make of this book, I enjoyed it for awhile, but couldn’t stand Hill’s crude juvenile humor, and language as others here have mentioned. I am certain you,savvy CCers,could edit this book to be a fine book.

But, I read something in the acknowledgments, and now I know how to “think” about this book.

It’s one long screenplay,written for the 20- 40 year old market, hence the references. Mary13, I had to look up Martha Quinn, early MTV personality. I’m not the market niche for the movie which is sure to be a blockbuster! complete with Hunger Games, strong female lead, Mad Max, car crashes, Titanic- like drama. The special effects will be stunning as the Dragonscale glows and the Phoenix rises. The Movie producers don’t have to spend much money deciding about the music score, HIll has ample suggestions for music themes.

From Acknowledgments :

**and! then Sean turned around and sold the film rights to 21st Century Fox and Temple Hill" **

Best thing about the book, how many CCers finished the book and participated in this discussion. Welcome newcomers !
Excellent discussion.

[Mary13]

I confess, I would go to the movie.

I have to clarify my own view of the book. I completely agree that The Fireman needed a better editor due to inconsistencies (about Dragonscale), some repetition (in camp confrontations) and altogether too much carnage (the final conflagration at Wyndham). However, I was never bored. There was never a point where I skimmed or wished the darn thing would end already. That doesn’t mean I thought it was great literature, but it went really well with a smoothie and a lawn chair and I had fun reading it.

Some books make better films and maybe this will be one of them.

[NJTheatreMOM]

@SouthJerseyChessMom

It’s one long screenplay

Agree that the book must have been written with an eye to the movies, but no screenplay would contain all the extraneous material that this novel was burdened with.

[SouthJerseyChessMom]

^ substitute the word " screenplay" with written with " an eye to the movies", which conveys my intent.

I think it could be a blockbuster, and glad I read it, only skimmed a little bit yesterday.

I liked the book, until I didn’t, and then “alluring” became “grueling”, maybe I felt rushed to be able to read this discussion

[Mary13]

@ignatius

Mary: Lonesome Dove leads Hill’s list.

A kindred spirit!

Thanks for the link to the reading and the Q&A. Joe Hill seems very down-to-earth, has a nice light touch with the audience. The “Hey Jude” kazoo segment was funny. Multiply that threesome by 50 and imagine the cacophony! No wonder in the early days at camp, Harper suffered through the sing-a-longs and only “wanted an end to morning chapel, to the sound and the fury.”

I thought Hill’s comments on the fine line between comedy and horror were very revealing (and in part explain the almost goofy persistence of Jakob and his killer plow, as discussed above). That part of the Q&A is at 41:47.

[ignatius]

I never expected The Fireman to rise to the level of great literature, so I felt no disappointment along those lines. Like Mary I kicked back in the summer shade - it’s hot in Texas - and read. Despite the book’s length I finished quickly which kept my boredom factor at bay.

The carnage didn’t bother me. (The language and certain vulgarities bothered me more than the carnage.) I agree with NerdMom:

… the passages that gripped me were not my favorites, but I felt they were major turning points.

I mean you can’t have an apocalypse with everyone standing around and singing while holding hands. Oh wait … I guess you can. Seriously, I think the ambulance scene is important - carnage needed. I’m not sure Harper realizes her total lack of control - and not only as one of the Camp Wyndham crew but as one of the infected - until that moment.

Digression: My son was a fan of John Wyndham growing up so the name Wyndham has positive connotations here.

Truthfully, I love this book club and for reasons like choosing The Fireman. I am/was in two real life book clubs also and am in the process of dropping one. The reason I’m quitting that one is because the books are always the same - genre et al. Not that the books are bad, but it just seems that no-one wants to move out of a certain comfort reading zone. Hence, the discussions have shortened to the point that they’re not even really discussions at all. Everything has already been said.

Looking back over the books we’ve chosen recently, I’d recommend The Fireman over Reading Lolita in Tehran - painfully boring. The Bookman’s Tale turned out to be nothing out of the ordinary. I liked it enough but I’d probably recommend The Fireman - with a note re vulgarity - over it. Despite its shortcomings, The Fireman is more creative and more action-packed. I enjoyed The Dig mainly because it led me to so much of interest while it skimmed the surface only. I never recommend it though as I don’t think it stands alone well.

I guess what I’m saying is I enjoy the CC Bookclub and have stumbled over some books over the years that I’ve loved and would have missed otherwise. On the other hand, even with the ones that have turned out not to be my favorites, reading and discussing them here has been a pleasure: I’m not sorry about any of our choices (well, other than Reading Lolita in Tehran and maybe The Glass Room) - but then again I’m easy.

Mary: I’ll go to the movie with you.

[NJTheatreMOM]

That video of Joe Hill is interesting (thanks for finding it, ignatius). He seems so young (those bangs!), but he is 44.

I was curious and did some digging and discovered that Joe Hill graduated from Vassar, class of 1995. I wonder if there are stacks of The Fireman for sale at the Vassar College bookstore?

Hill mispronounced the name of the artist “Basquiat.” He probably never saw the Julian Schnabel’s 1996 film about Basquiat, which is one of my favorite movies, though I’m no big fan of the art itself.

Two things that are going to stick with me from the video: the comparison that Hill made between horror and comedy (gonna really have to think about that one some more) and the story about the bat and the motorcycle.

Kind of off-topic, but a really good horror/fantasy show that all the young people have been raving about recently is the Netflix original series Stranger Things. My son who lives at home and I binge-watched it not long ago. Have any of you have seen it? The show popped into my head when I was thinking about Hill’s horror/comedy comparison and was trying to imagine whether I could possibly have laughed at some of the scary occurrences in the show.

[bearpanther]

Maybe it is my age (just 2.5 years older than Hill), but I had zero issue with the pop culture references as I got them all. Martha Quinn? Yeah, I remember watching her! I got a chuckle out of it; it seemed so random but brought me back to my childhood/teen years. But I did think to myself as I was reading that people much younger or much older might be like “Whaaaat?! Who are these people/things/etc?”

I also did wonder about Harper herself (who was in her 20s?) knowing who Martha Quinn was. If the novel took place present day, or even in the near future, why would she know who MQ was? She was on MTV from 1981-87ish, well before Harper’s birth, and she didn’t really stay in the public eye after that. There are some other celebrities from that era who are still known today in a much more general way that could have been used, I think, and would have been more known to a wider readership.

Here are 2 interviews people may find interesting:

http://www.omnivoracious.com/2016/05/smokin-numbers-soundtrack-for-joe-hill-the-fireman-amazon-book-review.html

About the music he listened to while writing.

http://www.goodreads.com/interviews/show/1125.Joe_Hill

Where he mentions having a crush on MQ when he was 14.

[Mary13]

@NJTheatreMOM

…the story about the bat and the motorcycle.

That part of the talk made me laugh. It was like stand-up comedy–weird standup, but funny.

@NJTheatreMOM, your post sent me to the internet as I realized that never in my life have I said the word “Basquiat” aloud. But, as one poster observed, “apparently the internet can’t make up its mind”: http://ask.metafilter.com/180346/How-to-pronounce-Basquiat

(I think I’ll just continue to refrain from discussing the artist in public. That’s worked well for me for decades. )

@bearpanther

I also did wonder about Harper herself (who was in her 20s?) knowing who Martha Quinn was. If the novel took place present day, or even in the near future, why would she know who MQ was?

Good point! My kids are in their 20s and the name Martha Quinn wouldn’t mean anything to them. She would probably be well-known among people of all ages in the entertainment world, but that wasn’t Harper’s line of work.

[Mary13]

@ignatius

I guess what I’m saying is I enjoy the CC Bookclub and have stumbled over some books over the years that I’ve loved and would have missed otherwise.

This is a digression from The Fireman—my apologies–but I was thinking about your comments and looked at the link you posted above (#85) with our books. I wonder if the CC book club lifers here would look at that list and be able to select immediately which books that have stayed with them the longest and are on their re-read list. It was surprisingly easy for me. Top five: Cutting for Stone, State of Wonder, Lonesome Dove, The Round House, Station Eleven. With honorable mentions for The Storied Life of A.J. Fikry because it opened up an amazing world of short stories for me, and Cloud Atlas because it was a great discussion on a book that was kind of a tough nut to crack.

Like @ignatius, I also love how varied our selections have been. Even the lesser titles have their merits. Whenever I’m questioning my daughter’s life choices, I still have an overwhelming urge to shake my head and say, “Amina! Amina! Amina!”

[SouthJerseyChessMom]

I had to find your post mary13 to remember all the wonderful books throughout the years !

Get ready…It’s getting pretty long :

2009:

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/722812-cc-june-summer-book-club-selection.html (The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society)

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/739173-dreamers-day-july-cc-summer-book-selection.html

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/756770-sarah-s-key-august-cc-summer-book-selection.html

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/775489-american-wife-october-cc-book-club-selection.html

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/802971-thirteenth-tale-december-cc-book-club-selection.html

2010:

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/839908-help-february-cc-book-club-selection.html

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/874004-shadow-wind-april-cc-book-club-selection.html

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/921062-elegance-hedgehog-june-cc-book-club-selection.html

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/950434-let-great-world-spin-august-cc-book-club-selection.html

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/983235-cutting-stone-october-cc-book-club-selection.html

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1017662-moonstone-december-cc-book-club-selection.html

2011:

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1051496-major-pettigrew-s-last-stand-february-cc-book-club-selection.html

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1088114-water-elephants-april-cc-book-club-selection.html

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1128229-hotel-corner-bitter-sweet-june-cc-book-club-selection.html

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1164259-secret-garden-forgotten-garden-august-cc-book-club-selection.html

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1196045-state-wonder-october-cc-book-club-selection.html

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1227061-before-i-go-sleep-december-cc-book-club-selection.html

2012:

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1258379-11-22-63-february-cc-book-club-selection.html

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1289690-bridge-san-luis-rey-april-cc-book-club-selection.html

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1324495-cat-s-table-june-cc-book-club-selection.html

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1354603-wide-sargasso-sea-jane-eyre-august-cc-book-club-selection.html

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1378606-cloud-atlas-october-cc-book-club-selection.html

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1403248-glass-room-december-cc-book-club-selection.html

2013:

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1429935-possession-february-cc-book-club-selection.html

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1461744-orchardist-april-cc-book-club-selection.html

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1491359-things-fall-apart-june-cc-book-club-selection.html

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1516433-stockholm-octavo-august-cc-book-club-selection.html

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1541379-war-worlds-ender-s-game-october-cc-book-club-selection.html

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1563943-dear-life-–-december-cc-book-club-selection-p1.html

2014:

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1590899-the-luminaries-february-cc-book-club-selection-p1.html

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1615429-claire-of-the-sea-light-april-cc-book-club-selection-p1.html

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1639495-the-storied-life-of-a-j-fikry-june-cc-book-club-selection-p1.html

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1658247-lonesome-dove-august-cc-book-club-selection-p1.html

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1677197-the-round-house-october-cc-book-club-selection-p1.html

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1695107-the-hound-of-the-baskervilles-and-the-house-of-silk-december-cc-book-club-selection-p1.html

2015:

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1717810-station-eleven-february-cc-book-club-selection-p1.html

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1741940-the-sleepwalker-s-guide-to-dancing-april-cc-book-club-selection.html#latest

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1765265-a-spool-of-blue-thread-june-cc-book-club-selection-p1.html

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1784411-seveneves-august-cc-book-club-selection-p1.html

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1801460-west-with-the-night-and-circling-the-sun-october-cc-book-club-selection-p1.html

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1819546-far-from-the-madding-crowd-december-cc-book-club-selection-p1.html

2016:

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1841344-the-bookman-s-tale-february-cc-book-club-selection-p1.html

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1860961-reading-lolita-in-tehran-and-persepolis-april-cc-book-club-selection-p1.html

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1882027-the-dig-june-cc-book-club-selection-p1.html

[SouthJerseyChessMom]

Let the Great World Spin ( and, the docu movie Ignatius told us about " the walk" ?)
Lonesome a Dove
The Help
Cutting for Stone
Cloud atlas
Possession
Stations Eleven

I know I liked 13th tale,and Dreamers of the day, scary I can’t remember details though ;(

[NJTheatreMOM]

“CC book club lifers” – I like that! I have only been participating since fall of 2011, but that still covers a lot of books. I love this book club (thanks, Mary13!) and always enjoy the discussions, even if I happen to discover that I don’t care for the book too much.

Favorites:

Cat’s Table*
Wide Sargasso Sea and Jane Eyre duo
Cloud Atlas*
The Round House*
West With the Night

*These three books are ones that I had already read and loved and convinced the club to try.

To provide balance, I must admit that was disappointed by the following books: The Glass Room, Possession, The Orchardist, The House of Silk. The Fireman.

[Mary13]

@SouthJerseyChessMom

Let the Great World Spin ( and, the docu movie Ignatius told us about " the walk" ?)

I think that was “Man on Wire” – great documentary about a very unusual man.

[ignatius]

I started at the end of 2009 so not a “book club lifer” but almost one.

So favorites:

The Moonstone - I’ve discovered I have a weakness for 1800s classics.

Major Pettigrew’s Last Stand - I must also have a weakness for grumpy men (with a soft side to them).

Cloud Atlas - Loved the book but am incapable of discussing it.

Possession - Prose, poetry, diary entries, letters. Consider it an 1800s classic even though it was written in 1990. (I just learned that it’s classified as historiographic metafiction. I can only say “what the h*ll is that?” and “I read and like historiographic metafiction?”)

War of the Worlds - Another 1800s classic

The Orchardist - Another grumpy (well, taciturn) old man.

The Luminaries - Loved loved loved this book - formatted similar to The Moonstone and Possession in a way.

Lonesome Dove - Upped to two grumpy old men - on horseback from Texas to Montana.

Station Eleven - Loved the connections

Seveneves

West with the Night - Memoir but not an obnoxious one ( Reading Lolita in Tehran.)

Far from the Madding Crowd - Another 1800s classic

Persepolis - Memoir but again not obnoxious

Honorable mentions:

The Storied Life of A.J. Fikry - Yet another grumpy old man but it was the short stories that captured my interest.

Things Fall Apart - I didn’t like this one so much but ended up reading the trilogy. I liked the last two better though Achebe has a thing for really crappy endings to his books - even when they’re not earned.

The length of my list confirms I’m easy. A list of not-favorites might work better for me. (Umm, Cutting for Stone described surgical procedures described in detail with blood spurting, you guys.)