The Glass Room – December CC Book Club Selection

[ignatius]

<p>

@EmmyBet

This may be way too obtuse, but “sex” itself is a character in this book. People are so driven by it that they seem to be able to focus on little else. No one seems to be able to have real friendships, do real work, or practically even have a conversation - they end up slaves to either their own or someone else’s sex drive.

</p>

<p>Good observation: I agree with you!</p>

[EmmyBet]

<p>Has anyone ever read Zola’s Germinal? I recall people were so busy having sex that they were practically reduced to an animal existence - which perhaps was his point. A scene that really stuck with me was a bunch of children playing in the coal scraps, imitating sexual acts. That was all of adult life they ever saw, apparently. I don’t mean to imply that sex is wrong or ugly, but in that context it sure was horrifying.</p>

[sylvan8798]

<p>

@EmmyBet

People whose lives weren’t based on their or another’s sexual obsession pretty much disappeared from the story - Kata in the concentration camp (he didn’t want to tell us about the guards who raped her?), the architect who went to “Michigan” (I still think he was the only truly interesting character in the book), and Hedy, who escaped to have some real adventures outside of the novel.

And even those people either had sex or there was some reference to their sexuality (Viktor speculates that the von Abt is a homosexual, and of course there is that little flirtation with Liesel).</p>

[Mary13]

<p>

@PATheaterMOM

Bookworm I was so taken with The Invisible Bridge as well-a difference between the two books is that I cared so very much for the characters in the Invisable Bridge-really liked them and were pulling for them on a personal level.

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<p>The Invisible Bridge was on our short list of possible selections for at least a couple of months. I am definitely going to get the book – thanks for the reminder.</p>

<p>

@bookworm

I don’t think the house defined them the way it did the adults, even the Germans and the Russian woman who seduced the housekeeper.

</p>

<p>About that Russian woman…this was another area where I felt Mawer’s characters were reduced to stereotypes. The female Russian soldiers are “lumping Ludmilas with faces like potatoes and hands like hams” (p. 322). The Russian sergeant-major who “fancies” Lanik is beefy and masculine, smells of “stables and ordure,” and speaks with a cartoonish Russian accent.</p>

<p>From a website about stereotypes in the media:</p>

<p>

Russian women were considered to be the ugliest humans in existence - “deformed monsters” wouldn’t be putting it too strongly. Ryan Stiles’s comment (“Russia! Our women look like men!”) might be understating the point. Johnny Carson wasn’t the only comedian to base entire sets on the purported hideousness of all Russian women, but he was the most famous - and hundreds of comedians copied him. Even today, many older North Americans are shocked by pictures of attractive Russian women because they’d heard for forty years that all Russian women were ugly and masculine-looking. It was a nasty, cruel stereotype, but one almost universal in the Cold War era. [Sensual</a> Slavs - Television Tropes & Idioms](<a href=“http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SensualSlavs]Sensual”>http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SensualSlavs)

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[Mary13]

<p>

@sylvan8798

Viktor speculates that the von Abt is a homosexual, and of course there is that little flirtation with Liesel

I’m glad you brought that up – I had wondered about that conversation. Mies van der Rohe wasn’t gay, so there’s no historical basis. Viktor whispers to Liesel about von Abt, “You can tell. At least I can tell” (p. 15). This is never mentioned again, so I wasn’t sure why it was included at all.</p>

<p>Re the flirtation, von Abt seems quite taken with Liesel, but it’s never really clear why he finds her so lovely. Perhaps it is presented as a contrast to Viktor, who is rarely, if ever, charmed by Liesel (only by Kata). As for Liesel’s part in the flirtation, I found the breastfeeding scene silly. “You may watch, Rainer. I would like you to watch”…”she feels Rainer’s eyes on her like a thrilling touch” (p. 49). (I nursed five babies and it was not a wellspring of eroticism, at least not in my experience. :))</p>

<p>Only slightly off-topic: Did anyone see this obit in the paper today? <a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/06/world/americas/oscar-niemeyer-modernist-architect-of-brasilia-dies-at-104.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/06/world/americas/oscar-niemeyer-modernist-architect-of-brasilia-dies-at-104.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Per the article, Architect Oskar Niemeyer was a “Modernist true believer” in the style of Mies van der Rohe. I think it’s interesting that the article calls Niemeyer’s Modernist architecture “sensual” as well as “curvaceous, lyrical, hedonistic.” Pretty sexual terms for a building – definitely made me think of the glass house.</p>

[NJTheatreMOM]

<p>

Originally Posted by Mary13
Viktor whispers to Liesel about von Abt, “You can tell. At least I can tell” (p. 15). This is never mentioned again, so I wasn’t sure why it was included at all.

</p>

<p>Speculation: Viktor was lying to Liesel, trying to deflect her interest in von Abt…or maybe it had to do with some kind of old-fashioned stereotype of people like interior designers and other types of creative men tending to be gay?</p>

<p>That wasn’t the only thing that was brought up in the text and never explained. Here’s another example: at one point, Viktor tells Kata he never would have guessed she was Jewish, but then she replies that she knew he was. Mawer doesn’t explain this. I assume he is implying that the reason was that Viktor was circumcised. Why so coy, Mr Mawer? You certainly don’t have any trouble describing women…</p>

<p>

Re the flirtation, von Abt seems quite taken with Liesel, but it’s never really clear why he finds her so lovely.

</p>

<p>Lan</p>

[psychmom]

<p>My first impression of von Abt was that he reminded me of Frobisher (Cloud Atlas) in his creativity, brilliance, and enthusiasm. Maybe he was bi? It certainly would fit in this novel! He was able to draw out Liesel’s maternal sensuality. There were other instances of mother vs. lover in the book…hey, what’s going on, Mr. Mawer? </p>

<p>And yes, NJTM, the circumcision was playfully coy. Where are the throbbing, hard and hot metaphors? The only male genitalia I remember is poor Oskar’s, and I refuse to research this!</p>

[Mary13]

<p>

[quote=NJTheatreMOM]
Lan</p>

[Mary13]

<p>

@psychmom

There were other instances of mother vs. lover in the book…hey, what’s going on, Mr. Mawer?

</p>

<p>psychmom, you are so right, mother-in-the-bedroom issues abound:</p>

<ul>
<li><p>Viktor toward Liesel: “She has noticed that ever since her pregnancy began he treats her with a kind of remote sterility, as though she were some kind of virginal mother about to give birth to the Messiah or something” (p. 44). [Seems like Viktor, bouncing between Liesel and Kata, is grappling with the classic Madonna-Whore complex.] </p></li>
<li><p>Hana to Liesel as “she nuzzles against Liesel’s neck”: “You smell like my mother used to. Warm and yeasty, like fresh bread” (p. 181).</p></li>
<li><p>Katalin to Liesel, as Liesel is toweling off the wet Katalin and feeling the “sleek shark of desire”: “’My mother used to do this,’ Katalin said. ‘We’d have a bath in the kitchen and then I’d sit in front of her and she’d dry my hair just like this’” (p. 235).</p></li>
<li><p>Tomas, about his lover Zdenka: “She is only five foot three inches tall and with a build as slight as a child’s. And yet Tom</p></li>
</ul>

[ignatius]

<p>

@psychmom

There were other instances of mother vs. lover in the book…hey, what’s going on, Mr. Mawer?

</p>

<p>I also picked up on instances of Madonna-Whore Complex. When Viktor finds out that Kata (Whore) has a child (Madonna), he does not quite know how to process the information. He writes a check for a large sum of money.</p>

<p>

“Just don’t go with men.”</p>

<p>“And what about you?”</p>

<p>“That’s for you to decide.” They watch one another. He feels this absurd excitement, like a child with a new idea, bursting to tell people, dying to explain. “That’s entirely up to you.”

</p>

<p>Viktor comes close to reconciling his Madonna-Whore Complex with Kata because she remains a whore (outside the sanctity of marriage) in his eyes.</p>

<p>This description of marriage to a man with Madonna-Whore Complex sounds like the Landauer marriage:</p>

<p>

[…] marriage to a man with the Madonna/Whore Complex will be essentially sexless. There may be enough sexual encounters to start a family, but with a child or children comes even more sexual distance. Once she’s a mother, he has even more reason not to “defile” her with sex.</p>

<p>Neither the husband nor the wife in a Madonna/Whore marriage may understand why their relationship is such an unhappy one. He loves her but he doesn’t want to be sexually intimate with her. She loves him but she is increasingly bitter because he won’t give her the sexual intimacy she desperately craves.</p>

<p>Infidelity may be a cornerstone of their marriage, as he seeks sex with acceptable “whores.” For him, there is no difference between paying for sex or having sex with a co-worker; to him all women he’s able to talk into having sex are whores.

</p>

<p>[Madonna/Whore</a> Complex: Love without Sex; Sex without Love](<a href=“http://madonnawhore.com/]Madonna/Whore”>http://madonnawhore.com/)</p>

[ignatius]

<p>The descriptions of Liesel make her sound rather on the plain side; yet she entrances von Abt … and Hana … and we learn (later) Lanik. I wondered until I read the passage describing Liesel’s mother (giving us insight into Liesel’s appeal):</p>

<p>

… Liesel’s mother sat at the end of the table with the Klimt portrait looking over her shoulder. Nowadays the face in the painting bore more resemblance to the daughter than it did to the woman who had sat for it two decades earlier: there was the same oval face, the same pursed and thoughtful mouth, the same dark, considerate eyes, the same aquiline nose. But no one, mother or daughter or anyone else, could ever have worn the dress that the artist had created for his subject, a garment that was a vortex of snow and ice, of diamonds and peacock tail feathers.</p>

<p>[…]</p>

<p>“I was the toast of Vienna,” Liesel’s mother told him.

</p>

<p>Some kind of sex appeal going on here that defies physical description. Klimpt felt it to paint the mother - though note the ice queen imagery:</p>

<p>From Wikipedia - Gustav Klimt</p>

<p>

Gustav Klimt (July 14, 1862 – February 6, 1918) was an Austrian symbolist painter and one of the most prominent members of the Vienna Secession movement. Klimt is noted for his paintings, murals, sketches, and other art objects. Klimt’s primary subject was the female body; his works are marked by a frank eroticism.

</p>

<p>The female body and eroticism? Weren’t we just discussing that? ;)</p>

<p>I like Klimt’s paintings:</p>

<p>[klimt</a> portraits - Google Search](<a href=“http://www.google.com/search?q=klimt+portraits&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=HWg&tbo=u&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=OQvCUK6vBam4yQHnmID4Dg&ved=0CC4QsAQ&biw=1680&bih=947]klimt”>http://www.google.com/search?q=klimt+portraits&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=HWg&tbo=u&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=OQvCUK6vBam4yQHnmID4Dg&ved=0CC4QsAQ&biw=1680&bih=947)</p>

[sylvan8798]

<p>I just want to know how NJTheatreMOM got an accent mark on “Lanik”…:)</p>

[sylvan8798]

<p>

@Mary13

Re the flirtation, von Abt seems quite taken with Liesel, but it’s never really clear why he finds her so lovely.

I don’t know, we’ve all met men (or women, not making any undue assumptions about posters here) with whom we’ve felt an almost instant connection on some level beyond the social expectations. Not that I would have suggested that any of them watch me nurse an infant!</p>

[ignatius]

<p>More Gustav Klimt:</p>

<p>[WebMuseum:</a> Klimt, Gustav](<a href=“http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/klimt/]WebMuseum:”>WebMuseum: Klimt, Gustav)</p>

<p>A couple echo the same-sex-ism that Mawer portrays in The Glass Room. </p>

<p>

Die Jungfrau 1913 (110 Kb); The Virgin; Narodni Galerie, Prague</p>

<p>Beautiful very colourful painting of a group of women yawning, stretching, sleeping. It looks like ten women in one bed with loads of colourful duvets. Brilliant.</p>

<p>Girl-friends 1916-17 (190 Kb)

</p>

[psychmom]

<p>

@Mary

On a more serious note, Oskar disappears from the novel in the same way Kata does – a Jew sent off to the camps whose fate is guessed at, but never known for sure.

</p>

<p>Oskar is the most haunting character to me. He is subjected to all of Hana’s escapades, he suffers the shame of Stahl’s examination, he loses his dignity by having to wear the Star instead of his customary flower, he is unable to create a child, he is exiled in his own home, and finally, he is sent to the camps and is lost to us.</p>

[NJTheatreMOM]

<p>

Originally posted by sylvan8798
I just want to know how NJTheatreMOM got an accent mark on “Lanik”…

</p>

<p>There are two ways. One way is to find the word with the accent in an online document and copy/paste it. That’s how I put the name “Němec” in a post. I just Googled “Czech name Nemec” and found an example right away.</p>

<p>The other method, for the more common symbols found in Spanish and French, etc. is to use the Ascii table. Go to the table via the link below and scroll down to the “Extended ASCII Codes.” They show you that if you want to type an "</p>

[sylvan8798]

<p>^Thanks, NJT! always good to learn something new about these things…</p>

[ignatius]

<p>

@psychmom

Oskar is the most haunting character to me. He is subjected to all of Hana’s escapades, he suffers the shame of Stahl’s examination, he loses his dignity by having to wear the Star instead of his customary flower, he is unable to create a child, he is exiled in his own home, and finally, he is sent to the camps and is lost to us.

</p>

<p>I agree. Kata runs a close second: she struggles to provide for herself and daughter, choosing prostitution to earn extra money. She finds herself having no way out of a living arrangement with Viktor and Liesel … one in which she has no options. Finally she is lost to the reader. </p>

<p>I think it goes without saying that Oskar and Kata did not survive.</p>

[NJTheatreMOM]

<p>^I agree that Oscar is a heartbreaking character. But Mawer let us know much more about Kata as a person, so his abandonment of her seems all the more egregious.</p>

[sylvan8798]

<p>^I actually felt that the fact that some of their fates were unknown mirrored the events of the times. Surely many people had loved ones spirited away and were left with the burden on not knowing what happened to them. It can be worse than knowing, however bad the truth is, because in not knowing some part of them can never move on.</p>