<p>Well BCEagle91…You make a good point about the market being rigged for the investor since 2009…but I guess people don’t see it that way…and so they don’t want to play…
Just like the guy in that article you posted…</p>
<p>As far as selling stocks to live…that is the plan…the old idea of selling 4% of your assets per year after you get to a certain age…is just one example…</p>
<p>The economic crisis sped things up…some people are selling down their assets, and they aren’t that old…</p>
<p>This is a good article on volume…</p>
<p>Just because people are allocating less capital to the stock market doesn’t mean these people are correct. They could be wrong. Depends on whether they even had investment choices and what they did with the money.</p>
<p>[Equity</a> Trading Volume Outlook Bleak as Investors Shun Stocks](<a href=“http://www.tradersmagazine.com/issues/25_334/equity-trading-volume-slump-109833-1.html?zkPrintable=true]Equity”>http://www.tradersmagazine.com/issues/25_334/equity-trading-volume-slump-109833-1.html?zkPrintable=true)</p>
<p>If u had deferred comp,payable in Jan…would u lock in your gains and go to cash?</p>
<p>I have switched all my retirement fund from Equity market to Real Estate. I feel much more in control. I had dismal returns after 20 years in sp500 index.</p>
<p>Qdogpa… Don’t know. Sorry.</p>
<p>Artloversplus…</p>
<p>A friend of mine has been trading for 30 years…he is thinking of switching to real estate. </p>
<p>Buying…fixing up and selling real estate. He has one deal going now and is looking at a second place that looks promising.</p>
<p>^^Exactly, moreover, with a solo 401k, you can “borrow” from it without tax consequences, where in an IRA, you cannot touch the fund. Even if you “win” in a stock or option market, you will lose as well, at the end it is just a wash.</p>
<p>Just saw another flip house in our area, the guy bought it at 140K, sold it for 260k after makeover.</p>
<p>Any idea how much the makeover cost? And how long did it take…from buying…to fixing up…to selling?</p>
<p>Have been a real estate fund since late 2007, best performer by far…add to it every two weeks,though as a % of assets,not significant</p>
<p>the guy bought it on 8/19 and start reselling it on 9/22 closed in Dec something, all in 2011. How much it costs to makeover? Idk, never saw it before and after. But the roof should be at least 12K, Kit and 2 bath maybe 20K max, windows and doors 10k and if there is mold or not plus land scaping. oh, don’t forget the painting.</p>
<p>Ok…Artloversplus…</p>
<p>So a 20 to 30 percent return after all expenses for 4 months of ownership…</p>
<p>That is why my trading friend is slowly moving his money from trading to real estate.</p>
<p>Qdogpa…I guess another coulda, woulda, shoulda, for me. :)</p>
<p>Flipping houses is a difficult proposition where i live…besides realtor fees(6%) on the purchase, there is a 1% realty transfer fee each way on buy and sell…my best purchase in last few months is silver coins, cash purchases,no tax,no receipt,American Eagles…old school investing</p>
<p>It is very hard to flip a place in my area…</p>
<p>Nice to see that you pay your taxes. :)</p>
<p>We invest in RE for the income… right now, counting the principal my tenants are paying down every month as part of the return, we are making a little over 20% per year after fixed expenses.</p>
<p>Once the mortgages are paid off, our return jumps to around 30% per year. If rents go up quicker than expenses, the return will get even better.</p>
<p>Although it can be a PITA at times, it sure beats sub-1% returns from fixed investments like T-bills.</p>
<p>Neither of us have pensions to speak of, so this is where a large piece of our retirement income will come from.</p>
<p>We’ve also been putting money into 401ks and IRAs, and have just let it ride for the last 20+ years. I don’t try to time the market.</p>
<p>Notrichenough…those are great returns…</p>
<p>How long did it take to get those returns?</p>
<p>Real estate is “buy to hold,” right now, to use trader-speak. You don’t want to try to “flip” houses. Home ownership is at a historical low, and there are all sorts of road blocks for entry into the market right now, in spite of what they want to tell you. Financing is hard to get for anyone, and even at rock bottom prices, nobody can believe that they are going to have to buy “so little” house compared to the boom years when the banks were handing out blank checks to anybody with a pulse.</p>
<p>But, as an investment, still good. All of this is cyclical. In another ten to fifteen years, it will be a seller’s market, but if you can rent it out, which means multiples or smaller houses in good school districts, rents are going up, and it’s a good investment. </p>
<p>Everyone misses opportunities. H is a trader and we completely missed out on the dot.coms because way before the crash, he just couldn’t figure out why they were valued the way they were. Same with CDO’s and other insurance intruments, he just couldn’t figure out why they were valued the way they were. So, he stayed away.</p>
<p>Turned out he was right, but I suppose if you “really” understood the way it was being gamed, you could profit.</p>
<p>Better to miss out on a boom you can’t understand than to jump in blind, imho.</p>
<p>We don’t buy anything unless it has positive cash flow from day one.</p>
<p>In the two years we have refi’ed almost everything to 15 year mortgages at ridiculously low rates for investment property - my lowest rate is 3.375%. This has really juiced up the ROI since now almost 60% of the mortgage payments are principal.</p>
<p>I also have thousands of hours of sweat equity invested, which not everyone can do. And DW is a RE agent who does rentals for a large chunk of her business, so we have some advantages that not everyone will have.</p>
<p>Real estate will unlikley see the past highs for at least 15 years…people have realized a home is simply That, a home…Not a retirement vehicle, not an ATM, a place to raise a family</p>
<p>And population stats are not working in household formation</p>
<p>Yeah, I started out in RE in 87 with ONLY sweat equity and the money I’d been saving through college. Small place. total dive.</p>
<p>But, yeah, if it had been buy to hold back then? It would have taken longer. Instead of selling and buying a bigger place, I’d have had to have rented it. Would rather be in something tangible like RE, but I never actually expected it to be a “career” the way it has been, second to my other work, emotionally and intellectually, but economically, much, much more important.</p>
<p>I’ve recently purchased a few places without cash flow, but the price was so staggeringly low, I couldn’t pass them by. Fixed them up, and the rents are good. There were really good buys, the kind of places the kids should hang onto even after we die, frankly.</p>
<p>But, if you can’t hold it, I’m sure you would agree, now is not the time to try to be a “flipper.” Or maybe it is where you are?</p>
<p>notrichenough…I see…</p>
<p>I guess your situation shows the upside of low rates. :)</p>
<p>And sweat equity…yeah that is not for everybody.</p>
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<p>Ummmm. Errrrr.
What about capital gains?</p>