The Misguided War on the SAT

[Rivet2000]

@Canuckdad

it doesn’t take into all the variables at play and measuring university success by GPA is a very “narrow” view of what university success is.

Perhaps colleges should give grades for non-academic pursuits like frat-time, kegger classs, and sleeping?

[yeahright74]

I don’t understand the viewpoint either. Yes, college has social aspects to it, but that isn’t the point of college. It’s to learn and get an education. Just like my job has social aspects, that isn’t the point of my job.

[Canuckdad]

Do you actually know what greek life is for some students? There are high degrees of community involvement from many fraternity and sororities.

[Canuckdad]

That comment is truly insulting (if not ignorant) to college students who do join fraternities and sororities and the hundreds of hours these organizations spend on community involvement.

[Canuckdad]

The social context of university life is hugely important. It is very different from the workplace. Part of getting an education is what goes on outside of the classroom.

[yeahright74]

@Canuckdad

That comment is truly insulting (if not ignorant)

You make it sound like frats are the second coming of mother Teresa. The partying is a feature, not a glitch. They don’t exist as charitable organizations I can assure you.

[yeahright74]

@Canuckdad

Part of getting an education is what goes on outside of the classroom.

Save the $100k and just join a book club.

I guess those who forgo college for work, trades, what have you don’t get to experience or learn “what goes on outside the classroom”.

[Rivet2000]

@Canuckdad

That comment is truly insulting (if not ignorant) to college students who do join fraternities and sororities and the hundreds of hours these organizations spend on community involvement.

Perhaps they should invest some of that time in developing a sense of humor??

Most students go to colleges for the academics. When non-academic pursuits interfere with that, they should reconsider their goals. You don’t need to be a college student to be involved with community service.

[yeahright74]

@Rivet2000

When non-academic pursuits interfere with that, they should reconsider their goals.

“Dad, I’m sorry, but I got kicked out of school. But don’t worry! I made some friends! And THATS the important part of college.”

[michaelcollege]

@Zrt42

Surely you acknowledge the difficulties in trying to compare grades across different schools, districts and states.

Not sure that admissions has these difficulties. Maybe difficult for some families to understand but that is not important.

[michaelcollege]

@yeahright74

Curious on what the forum members think the next school(s) will be to pull the ol’ switcheroo and return to test required. Educated guesses and otherwise welcome.

Name your lazy ivy.

[michaelcollege]

@Rivet2000

I lost count of how many of our kids friends padded applications with manufactured “compassion projects” all coin operated.

No admissions officer was fooled.

But we agree on the educated jerk. All day, everyday.

[2Devils]

@Zrt42

@Canuckdad

f course, someone who scores “high” on a SAT is more likely to get a higher GPA because that is more likely because of where they are spending their time.

It just keeps happening. This ‘belief’ that high achieving, very bright students who test well aren’t athletic or artistic or creative. They are just robots. It isn’t true.

There are so few spots at the most highly selective US universities that they have no problem finding students with high scores on standardized tests (and lofty high school & university GPAs) who also have amazing achievements in athletics & the arts (and these are high character individuals).

I find it interesting that this viewpoint is consistently allowed to be propagated in this thread and on this website.

I am in agreement. Those of us with kids at these high-achieving schools have said over and over the schools are filled with kids who have both the academics AND the creativity, and are kind/empathetic, participate in the high school classroom(and again when in college). With 20,000 kids scoring 1500+ on the SAT each year, is it really that surprising that a large subset of these kids have positive character traits and creativity/arts achievements, and the top schools have no problem filling their unhooked /non -institutional priority seats with these kids? And within this subset are many who did not have to sacrifice sleep or sanity to ace the hardest classes in high school and ace the SAT?

[Zrt42]

@2Devils

With 20,000 kids scoring 1500+ on the SAT each year, is it really that surprising that a large subset of these kids have positive character traits and creativity/arts achievements, and the top schools have no problem filling their unhooked /non -institutional priority seats with these kids? And within this subset are many who did not have to sacrifice sleep or sanity to ace the hardest classes in high school and ace the SAT?

To certain people in this thread, it is surprising. It shouldn’t be, but it is. So they embrace a false narrative.

It isn’t the only reason, but it is a prominent reason why there truly is a misguided war on the SAT.

[Canuckdad]

Define “high achieving schools”. I am curious. When you start an argument “Those of us with kids at these high-achieving” schools", you have already declared your bias. Are you saying that a kid who scores a 1200 should not be at these highly selective schools? Or is really healthy to have a school profile to have only kids with 1500+ SAT’s? Not very reflective of the world, is it?

[Zrt42]

@Canuckdad

Define “high achieving schools”

Our most selective universities. You can say IvyPlus, you can use the US News Top 25…opinions vary. However, everyone acknowledges that some schools are more selective than others.

@Canuckdad

“Those of us with kids at these high-achieving” schools", you have already declared your bias.

That some schools are more selective than others is not a bias, it is a fact.

@Canuckdad

Are you saying that a kid who scores a 1200 should not be at these highly selective schools?

With very few exceptions, the highly selective schools themselves are saying this.

@Canuckdad

is really healthy to have a school profile to have only kids with 1500+ SAT’s? Not very reflective of the world, is it?

There are students of all races, economic levels, orientations and religions that have high test scores and excellent grades. These schools aren’t perfect in representing diversity, but they are trying to improve. I would hope no one thinks that less intelligent kids need to be forced into an environment where they will likely fail just to satisfy someone’s twisted view of diversity.

[yeahright74]

@Canuckdad

Are you saying that a kid who scores a 1200 should not be at these highly selective schools?

Ok, but don’t stop there. What about 800? 600? 400? Not very “inclusive” to exclude them. They may end up dropping out very quickly because of the rigor, but who cares, so long as they got a seat at the table, short lived as it was.

@Canuckdad

Or is really healthy to have a school profile to have only kids with 1500+ SAT’s?

Yes, if the rigor demands it.