So why is it so important for them to require standardized test scores to help them better decide who to select?
By their own metrics, it doesn’t seem like it’s necessary at all.
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Actually, there are plenty (but far, far from all!!) of employers who do ask for SAT scores. Not saying that is good or bad or relevant or not, but it is just something that does indeed happen.
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I think the point of this post is saying that there is new research showing that there is in fact relevance to the SAT for performance. I haven’t read any of the background info proving or disproving this. I will say that among the kids that I know that have similar backgrounds, what I know of their scores and what is clear about their overall performance, there certainly is a strong correlation. There are a ton of factors I’d take into consideration when hiring someone, but if the ONLY data and info I could have is the SAT score, personally I’d take the kid with the higher score. If I knew more about them, I might overlook their SAT score. But in the absence of other info, I definitely believe there is valuable information in the score. Could certainly just be me (but I doubt it!). But the SAT is far less useful than it used to be, when it intended to test more for intelligence vs. preparation, and it surely was never perfect. So even further from perfect now.
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I have never seen an original Mozart manuscript. From what I understand though, he would write entire scores, straight out of his head, with nary a correction on it.
I have seen an original Beethoven score. It looked like someone had spilled ink on it. Looking at it, one could imagine just how slow and tortured the process was in creating his music, as different sections were crossed out and rewritten.
Thank god there is room in our elite universities for Mozarts and Beethovens.
(I like Beethoven’s music better, by the way, even as I appreciate the sheer virtuosity of Mozart’s accomplishments).
It’s also intriguing to me how the SLACs and universities might be diverging on this.
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I have not found this to be true. In fact, the opposite is much more often true.
Not from my experience.
@Mwfan1921
is correct.
I see little evidence of this but anything possible.
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I love this example! And I sure wouldn’t say that slower thinkers, or people who struggle and persist at things, can’t be absolutely amazing. But if I was hiring 100 people and all I could know was that one group of 100 could do what I wanted them to do pretty quickly and perfectly, and the other 100 would be much slower and maybe get a lot more wrong in the given time, call me crazy but I’d pick group 1. However, I completely understand that group 2 could have some incredible gems (and group 1 could have some boring duds). But nonetheless, on average, I doubt more people would intentionally select group 2 over group 1 with that being all the info they had. But if anyone wants to go ahead and hire group 2, hooray for you, that’s great.
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I look forward to you sharing your research, data, and methods for others to evaluate.
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I wouldn’t worry too much about the academic superstars who attend those schools. I’m sure there are enough superstars on campus around them in terms of classmates, graduate students, and professors as well as the availability of advanced classes specifically designed to cater to them that they can all find their niche.
It probably doesn’t matter to them that “lesser” students are getting As, too.
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Perhaps we can agree that there are some jobs where speed is of the essence, and others where it is not? 
(few job ads out there for “Needed: composer to change how the Western world thinks about music. Good hearing a plus, but not strictly necessary.”)
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Sorry but I am not able to share publicly. On the other hand, I was interviewed for the NYT story you posted and didn’t make the story for the same reason (and they had a clear angle like with most stories). Note I have been in the Times discussing admissions more than 10x so you can likely figure out who I am and that I speak from experience.
Sadly, diamonds in the rough are as rare as flawless diamonds.
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Not too surprising that if grade inflation happens too much, GPAs at the top end become less predictive, because the ceiling is effectively lowered.
Of course, the SAT and ACT have relatively low ceilings in the context of elite colleges, so they suffer similar problems when used by elite colleges. Caltech apparently does not think that the SAT and ACT are useful to it, presumably because the ceilings are too low, so it needs to look at other indicators of academic strength.
As a practical matter, increased emphasis on the SAT and ACT at elite colleges may be more to screen out some of the less academically qualified applicants, but would not otherwise increase the emphasis on academic achievement or merit in admissions at most of them.
Standardized testing in other countries commonly does have higher ceilings, as well as greater emphases on subject matter expected to be learned in high school. Perhaps that would be helpful, although getting a new type of standardized test in place against the entrenched incumbency of the SAT and ACT may be a difficult task (especially if the College Board and ACT like it the way it is).
The College Board says that SAT + HSGPA > HSGPA > SAT > SAT-ERW > SAT-M in predicting first year college GPA: https://satsuite.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/national-sat-validity-study-overview-admissions-enrollment-leaders.pdf
Source? And what do you mean by ‘reckon with that truth the hard way’?
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This College Board study found that students from high income and high parental education families were more likely to be SAT discrepant (i.e. SAT higher than HS GPA would predict) than overall students are expected to be.
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Are you familiar with top colleges who are looking at dropouts and/or strugglers and checking back to see if they got in test optional or with low scores?
Disadvantage relative to what?
I mean, what does disadvantage even mean anymore?
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Because I’m agnostic on this whole issue, and don’t want to choose a ‘side’ to debate, I suggest to let your fingers do the googling. Lots of information and data out there about testing in admissions, testing as it pertains to disadvantaged students, test optional, etc.
I am willing to consider that there can be colleges where test scores don’t predict performance. And understanding when that is true, or not true, can help everyone understand the benefits and limitations of standardized tests.
For example, when MIT says they looked at this in detail, they likely assigned the issue to their director of admissions research, who has a PhD in statistical analysis techniques. She has the knowledge of how to properly control for various things such as average SAT score per school, spread of SAT scores by school, the interrelationships between scores and SAT, average income and income spread in the school district, and how that actually relates to performance at MIT. And if there she wants to brainstorm an idea of how best to approach something, there are hundreds of other professors that understand statistical methods. It’s really unlikely she got this wrong.
But you have given us nothing other than “trust me”. I have no idea if you understand this problem just as well as MIT and have a great insight to share, or if you are like a lot of people that mistake simple correlation for causation.
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I am just going to chime in here and say @michaelcollege is underselling his expertise, and while on the internet anyone can be a dog, he really does have a great deal of expertise. Also keeping it extremely vague so as to preserve confidentiality.
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said by the person with strong opinions and a hidden profile!
1/2 kidding but my goal is not to prove anything to you. I have been verified by people here lots of times online and offline.
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