The Misguided War on the SAT

I would be totally fine with this.

Fair enough

As would I, and most likely everyone who is years away from the material covered by the test. But, the point of the SAT/ACT is to measure the ability to answer questions on recently covered material isn’t it? I would wager that even your score was just good enough to get you to that first BA, amirite?

I’ll put you down for a yes on the lottery system. Or, how about using the SAT/ATC as a reverse indicator? The lower the score the better? Hmmmm, maybe, just maybe,…

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Is it? Because others have said it measures potential for college success and others still have said it measures intelligence.

This is a very disingenuous argument. Can we be adults and cut out the sarcasm?

As is this.

I would argue it measures both. Of course, we’d need a definition of ā€œcollege successā€, which can be subjective. Graduating? Graduating with a 4.0? Dragging your corpse across the finish line at commencement? Something else?

Reminds me of something I once read years ago: ā€œmost of the smartest people I know went to college. All the stupidest people I know went to college.ā€

Definitely not true for the verbal part. I took a practice verbal test recently because I was curious about what they have on it nowadays.

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No more disingenuous than you saying that you would not score well today on an SAT that covers material from you high school days even though you have a long list of degrees. That material is years (decades?) in your past is it not?

And I’d probably do OK on the math sections, but that’s most likely because it’s what I used most in college.

A standardized test along with all the other material included in most college applications still seems like the best way to evaluate a candidate.

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The LSAT is actually an equalizer for kids who go to less prestigious schools but can score high on the test. ā€œThe LSAT is the single best predictor of law school successā€.

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I did not intend it to be disingenuous at all. It has been asserted that the SAT measures either potential for college success and/or intelligence. In fact, I would do quite terribly on it. Yet I feel quite confident that, if put in a college classroom, I would be a very successful student. In this case, my SAT score would not be the best predictor of my college success or failure (I will leave the intelligence question alone). And I actually believe that to be the case for many students.

Yep. There’s a wide range of undergraduate majors that go on to law school. It measures logic, something that is seemingly very important when making arguments (just ask Aristotle). If you are a logical thinker by nature, you will do well. Who wants an illogical lawyer?

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The opposing side?

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Good point. Logical, even.

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I have no problem with this! :+1:

The SAT/ACT tests high school level vocabulary, writing, and math. Most first year college classes include, guess what, writing and math. So as a broad measure it could be helpful.

Maybe at some schools more than others, because if you are weak in math, as you mentioned, Cal Tech might not be a good match for you. But, if you took the test again, you’d probably find that out :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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Although, Caltech is also test blind, so they seem to have other ways of teasing out the information they need about prospective students’ math abilities. Even with test blind policy, I am quite certain I would not be accepted, if perhaps someone triple dog dared me to apply.

ā€œLast month, over 140 professorial faculty signed and submitted to the administration a petition calling for the reinstatement of the SAT as a criterion for admissions.ā€

And yet I have complete confidence that if I were to apply in the next application cycle, they would see right through me and reject me within 5 seconds of reviewing my application, even without an SAT score. I believe many of their admissions officers are savvy enough to be able to gauge ability of potential students in most cases.

Indeed, this quote seems to speak to that:
ā€œWe have more qualified students applying than there are spots at Caltech,ā€ noted Centennial Chair Professor and petition signatory John Dabiri in an interview with the Tech.

As I understand from this quote, he is not complaining that unqualified students are somehow sneaking in - just that there are so few spots for so many super star students so he thinks they need some help choosing between qualified students, rather than weeding out the unqualified. That’s fine. If they decide that’s what will work best for them in selecting students, power to them. But, again, from this is doesn’t sound like there is a terrible problem brewing among freshman unable to keep up.

And then there is this quote:
An internal study conducted by Caltech faculty concluded that ā€œstandardized test scores have little to no power in predicting students’ performance…as students progress through the first-year core curriculum,ā€ according to an official Institute statement.

You are making it very hard to resist triple dog daring you!

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Silly faculty. What do they know?