These types of articles seem to come up all of the time (probably pushed by journalists that are disproportionately liberal arts majors), yet as someone that knows firsthand about the hiring processes at multiple large companies over the course of many years, it’s simply not reflecting reality. The thing that a lot of liberal arts majors seem to neglect is that there are plenty of engineering and business majors that can “walk and chew gum at the same time.” That is, they have both the “hard” quantitative skills AND the “soft” critical thinking and communication skills. Liberal arts majors can’t just assume that they somehow have a monopoly on the latter soft skills.
The company that I work for will receive hundreds (if not thousands) of resumes for every posted position. The fact of the matter is that those resumes are going to first get processed by software to look for the quantifiable skills that match the applicable position. You have to show that you have the hard skills first just to get in the door for an interview. Then, it’s that interview where you get the chance to display the soft communication skills. The problem is that too many liberal arts grads think that they can jump to that interview step, where the the reality is that the hardest part of most job searches is to get the interview in the first place (which requires hard skills to get past the initial screening process).
To be sure, if you have a liberal arts degree from an Ivy/Ivy-level school, the above largely doesn’t apply because the prestige and brand of the school name stands in as verification that the applicant has the intellect to get up to speed. The typical Harvard liberal arts grad is going to be fine because he/she went to Harvard. However, that generally goes away pretty quickly as you go down the rankings list. Even at an excellent school such as, say, Michigan, the job opportunities between a Michigan STEM/business major versus a Michigan liberal arts major are pretty substantial.
Curious about this. Does your company program the software to reject “____ liberal arts major” resumes without whatever quantifiable skills the company is looking for, but has some kind of a filter to pass those same resumes through IF they list whatever schools the company considers Ivy level?
If software is making the judgement here, it has to be programmed with such exceptions, I’d think.
This was my thought after having read the article as well. The degrees listed as being the most regretted seem to incorporate the vast majority of non-professional majors.
I’d make a distinction between the two paragraphs: the resume reviewing software is specific to our company and many others, while the exception made for Ivy level students is more of a general observation.
How the software works in reviewing a resume is going to depend upon the position. Each position posted is going to list certain educational requirements, skills and experience. It’s not so much that a liberal arts major is going to get automatically nixed for a position that requires a computer science degree, but rather that when the software applies its algorithm to find the “best matches” for that position, it’s going to be a lower match. There’s usually such a large number of applicants for each position that the reality is that there needs to be a really high match to get an interview. (Note that we’re in the professional services industry where the most sought after skills are in programming, data analytics, accounting and management. “Management” is more nebulous and could arguably be filled by a pure liberal arts person, but the other areas require some fairly clear quantitative experience.)
The Ivy/top school advantage doesn’t come from being able to game the recruiting software that’s looking for certain keywords, but rather it provides a better chance at personal and/or alumni connections to avoid the software entirely and send a resume directly to the human that actually does the hiring.
Actually, I have seen software that does make such a distinction when my kid applied for jobs. When applying on line, the first question was what college you attended, from a drop down menu. Then the next question was your major, also from a drop down menu, but the menu changed depending on the answer to the first question. So elite schools included major choices like history, but nonelite schools had choices like accounting or finance only, history was not an option for applicants.
Thanks for the clarification @“Frank the Tank” - and @roycroftmom I wondered the same. Maybe the algorithm, program, whatever we call a resume text analysis tool like this, could look at a college and make some determination there. The one you describe seems to know what majors are offered at various schools AND which ones suit the position best.
A comparison of new grad earnings at Ivies vs going “down the rankings list” is below, as listed in College Scorecard dabaase. The sample only includes federal FA recipients (either grant or loan) who entered the work force after their bachelor’s. Earnings are based on tax filings. Note that Ivy sample size is small for some of the listed majors, particularly the listed 2 lowest new grad earning majors – chemistry and education.
Most majors that are associated with a lower salary for bachelor’s appear to have low new grad earnings at both Ivies and lower tier colleges. In many cases, there were only small differences between Ivies, other top 20 private, and top 21-50 private. Publics and low ranked colleges often have more significant differences as a percentage, but little as an absolute amount. For example, Ivy English majors have a median of $36k vs $27k for all colleges. A $9k difference might be considered small in absolute terms, but that $9k difference is 33% higher.
Economics and mathematics have some of the largest differences by college tier. Wall Street finance type hiring policies likely contributes. Computer Science also has a large differences by selectivity tier. SV CS positions aren’t generally thought to be prestige sensitive like Wall Street finance, but it is selective at both the student level (portion of students who choose to target high cost of living SV jobs instead of local jobs near college) and employer level (criteria high salary SV employers value overlaps with criteria highly selective colleges look for).
Ivies = USNWR top 20 national universities that are Ivies
T20 = USNWR top 20 national universities that are not Ivies
T50 Pri = USNWR top 21-50 national private universities
T50 Pub = USNWR top 20-50 national public universities
All = All reported 4-year private non-profit and public universities in database
------------------ MEDIAN FIRST YEAR EARNINGS BY MAJOR -----------
Major Ivies T20 T50 Pri T50 Pub All
Computer Science+ $110k $104k $86k $81k $66k
Computer Engineering $81k $84k $76k $70k
Electrical Engineering $83k $73k* $75k $76k $67k
Mathematics $82k $78k $61k $50k $46k
Economics $74k $75k $59k $49k $47k
Nursing $74k $66k $74k^ $62k $64k
Mechanical Engineering $71k $72k $66k $66k $63k
Engineering (All Majors) $70k $73k $69k $67k $63k
Business $62k $70k $61k $54k $42k
Accounting $64k $66k $58k $48k
All Students $60k $57k $51k $44k $41k
Political Science $50k $44k $43k $35k $34k
Sociology $45k $35k $38k $31k $30k
Psychology $42k $36k $33k $29k $29k
English $36k $34k $34k $28k $27k
Biology $36k $34k $32k $29k $28k
Education $32k $37k $37k $35k $33k
Chemistry $31k $38k $36k $34k
Drama/Theater $23k $22k $21k $21k
Music $21k $24k $24k $26k
+Includes Computer and Information Sciences Major
*Electrical Engineering increases from $73k to $101k, if you include MIT EECS
^Nursing drops from $74k to $67k without NYU
I have to agree. Just because you looooooove sociology doesn’t mean it’s a good idea to support yourself and family with it. You’re in college to gain marketable job skills.
So you think our world would be better without sociology majors/jobs? What about those who make less on the list - like, say, education majors - everyone has to homeschool?
Personally, I enjoy drama and music folks/experiences too.
I’m glad there is more to life than money for many people.
When I’m at school I come across students who plan to work at the local grocery store or factory full time post graduation and those who plan to become doctors - plus everything in between and even more outside the box like tattoo artists or scuba guides. To me, as long as they’re happy and can pay their bills, they’re a success in life. There’s no special “honors” simply because they make Top 10% in income.
I have one data point that agrees with the different filter for Ivy-type schools. S graduated with a liberal arts major, from an Ivy. Applied to one job (data-heavy), got the interview, got the job. I have to assume the school name must have mattered–his major was not a direct connect to the position. And he has certainly made it clear that they made the right choice.
Oh - I totally agree that we need the fine arts and liberal arts in society and have many educators in my family and life (including my wife and mother).
I think what’s important is that people need to go into their majors with their eyes wide open to what realistic opportunities exist, though. From there, they then have to determine whether the tuition that they are paying (often funded by debt) is worth it. It’s simple math - there are a lot more people seeking to be full-time musicians than there are positions available, whereas that’s not the same in, say, computer science or accounting. A very close friend of is a member of an elite big city orchestra, which is phenomenal… but anyone that saw the path to get there along with the requisite talent level and competition involved would also know that it’s far from a straight-forward path that will go according to plan. For the vast majority of people, college is a massive expense and that is going to be increasingly the case, so we can’t be naive to throw the ROI calculations out the window.
Seems like these types of threads always end up with people arguing or believing that others are arguing for either:
Using financial ROI and post-graduation career implications as the only or most important factors in college and major decisions.
Disregarding financial ROI and post-graduation career implications completely in college and major decisions.
But a more realistic view for most is that financial ROI and post-graduation career implications should be considered, but should not be the only factors in college and major decisions.
Of course, it also does not help if one is poorly informed on potential factors in the decision. For example, the common notion of STEM majors having good career prospects is not true for many.
Wow, @Data10 , that table should be required reading for ANY college student who isn’t a trust fund baby, thank you for posting this.
From a European perspective, what jumps out at me is that the majors above the median all have one thing in common: they are preprofessional majors as opposed to liberal arts majors, rather than the fitting into the STEM/not STEM dichotomy, And the table does show similarities to the “most regretted majors”.
(I assume maths is so high because math majors tend to be people with high nonverbal intelligence who can easily be trained up for jobs in CS and Banking, so really a preprofessional major in disguise).
But unlike everywhere else in the world, pre professional majors are still considered less prestigious than liberal arts majors - the kind of major immigrant families insist on, who haven’t understood yet what really counts in the US…even so they so clearly lead to wealth, rather than to a precarious existence(and yes, I think anything under 30 k a year can lead to a precarious existence, especially in high COL areas). So un-American to disregard wealth creation, LOL.
It makes total sense to me that most people will at some point regret studying a field, no matter how much they loved if they cannot establish their financial independence at the point their peers buy houses and start families.
Should no one study English or sociology any more? Of course not, but like PP have said, go into it with eyes wide open and be prepared that you may need to add preprofessional qualifications by going to grad school. Which again adds more cost to the ROI calculation, because these programs tend not to be funded.
BTW can anyone shed light for me on why chemistry ranks so low? Pharma, chemical, petrochemical companies - who do they hire? Is it all chemical engineers?
Probably because liberal arts majors are more common at high prestige colleges (where the college name can help enter careers in consulting and banking) and among students from high SES families (whose money and connections can help them launch a career).
But also note that many preprofessional majors do not have high paid or prestigious job prospects. Consider journalism, architecture, and agriculture, for example. Business also appears to be college prestige sensitive.
In most cases, the major matters most for the first job. Once you get the first job, its all about skills.
Also - Most college students don’t want to go to grad school and the bachelor’s is a terminal degree. That combined with point 1 above, may limit first job success or start you in a career that you are settling for.
If grad school is (for sure) a goal, the major won’t matter.
Depends on the type of grad school. PhD programs commonly depend on what was learned in an undergraduate major in the same or related field, though it may not be specifically required to have such a major.
Some other types of professional programs could lead to career variations based on undergraduate major. Patent law and what subjects a high school teacher can teach are examples.
I was curious about math as well, more so about why the salary appears to be so correlated with college selectivity. For example, mathematics appears to be one of the highest salary majors at Ivies, but is only slightly above the median among all colleges. Economics displays this same pattern and has similar listed salaries. Looking up the specific employers at job titles at Cornell (https://as.cornell.edu/mathematics-major-minor ), it looks like 50% of those who are employed work in finance, 18% work in tech (usually as software engineer), and 13% work in consulting. All of these are high salary fields. Finance and consulting are typically thought of as sensitive to college name, which fits with the salary being especially correlated with selectivity. The distribution looks somewhat similar to economics (https://as.cornell.edu/economics-major ), which had 54% in finance compared to 50% for math, so it’s not surprising that mathematics and economics display a similar pattern.
As ucbalumnus mentioned, the higher salary chemistry jobs often expect more advanced degrees than a bachelor’s. Looking up the employer list on Cornell, the most common employment sector was education, with job titles like “Middle School Science Teacher.” Many did work as industry scientists, but the job titles sound lower level/salary, such as “Research Assistant” or “Lab Technician.”
Another contributing factor is I’d expect many/most chem majors at highly selective colleges are pre-med, so the ones who enter the work force instead of attending med/grad school and appear in the survey, areoften ones who either dropped out of pre-med or were not accepted to med school… not a random selection.
Relevant skills and relevant experience are usually especially important for both the first job and subsequent jobs, but major is also often important, particularly for pre-professional type majors in which you are expected to learn key job specific skills in required classes for the major.
For example, I work in engineering. If I search on Indeed for experienced hire positions similar to mine, the vast majority list a specific major or group of majors within the job requirements. Some postings say the position requires a “degree in Electrical Engineering” while others say “Engineering …, or related field,” but the vast majority imply a non-tech degree is inadequate. The same is true for positions that say they require graduate degrees rather than bachelor’s, as well as positions for other types of engineers I work with, including software engineers.
I’d agree that college name is rarely important beyond the first job. Even for the first job, other factors are usually far more important than college name, including both relevant skills/experience and college major.
Maybe you mean professional school, such as JD or MD? Major is absolutely relevant for non-professional graduate degrees, such as MS or PhD. This doesn’t mean the graduate degree has to be in the same field as the undergraduate major, just as jobs don’t necessarily need to be in the same field as the major. However, the field of study is relevant, and pursuing a related field is often a strong benefit. For example, it’s not uncommon for a physics major to pursue a MS in electrical engineering, or a mathematics major to pursue a MS in computer science.