<p>I still recall the good old days when one’s faith was regarded as a personal thing, not to be cynically trotted out and put on display as a political tool or weapon. These days, candidates are obliged to prance around praising the Lord at every whistlestop if they want to be elected. … I’m afraid I’m with McCain on this one. He doesn’t prate on about his faith, nor should he have to. But I understand your point, Hunt.</p>
<p>I don’t think Obama “parades” his religion. The media has made his religion and church an issue. He wrote about it in his book (but this was prior to him becoming a candidate) because his former pastor was responsible for bringing him to a life of faith. He certainly doesn’t come across as any Bible thumping religious zealot. He simply goes to church with his family and his faith is important. I, too feel religion is a personal thing. Church going is not an indication of one’s character necessarily.</p>
<p>Impw–No, I don’t think Obama is a religious zealot. I’m wearing an Obama t-shirt as I type this, and plan to vote for him this fall. I just think it’s sad that candidates seem required these days to discuss their religious beliefs–that it’s almost a prerequisite for election that they profess to be devout Christians.</p>
<p>Easy Tiger!</p>
<p>I seem to recall a non-Christian doing pretty well in 2000…some say that this dagger to the heart of your maxim even got more votes --for VP-- than the skunk that actually won; he was pretty adamant about being a practicing and religious Jew.</p>
<p>Also see:
– Senate
– Congress
– Mayor
– State Senators
– District Attorneys
– Judges and,
– of course, dog catchers.</p>
<p>Wearing an Obama Tee?</p>
<p>Is this idolatrous collectable of the rock-star or guru variety?;)</p>
<p>The guru variety. … And I do realize that there are non-Christians in the political world, though they tend to be a quiet group. The marriage between religion and politics worries me. I think about how the once dynamic, advanced Arab civilization was brought down over time as increasingly fanatical religious beliefs took hold. A once enlightened world of poets and mathematicians now spawns terrorists and suicide bombers.</p>
<p>Have you ever heard of Alamut?
How about Hasan-i Sabbah?</p>
<p>That would cover a bit of the history of violence in Islam.</p>
<p>For Christianity and poetry, perhaps Girolamo Savonarola and the Bonfire of the Vanities.</p>
<p>For atheists and a culture of terror how about Stalin: 17 million+; for Mao: 45 million souls.
The last of these atrocities, of course, were committed with the benefit of modernity…not medieval times.</p>
<p>…sounds like a nice shirt!</p>
<p>In any case, I feel that people should be proud of who they are and what they believe and should feel free to shout it from the rooftops (during business hours) even if they believe in the divine.</p>
<p>Iron Maiden - Cindy is McCain’s 2nd wife. His 1st wife was married before him & had 2 sons from that previous marriage. McCain adopted her sons & they are still close.</p>
<p>OK, Woodwork. I was lying. It’s not really a guru shirt. Just a garden variety Obama 08 shirt. What would you call that? </p>
<p>I know about Savonarola. In fact, this spring I had the privilege of standing on the very spot where was he was burned at the stake a few years back. … </p>
<p>As for atheists and Stalin’s culture of terror–I hope you don’t think I was implying that we should be an atheistic society? Far from it. I just don’t think religion and politics should be so intertwined. Now I’m waiting for somebody to jump in and tell me that the founding fathers actually wanted them intertwined.</p>
<p>Hindoo,</p>
<p>the problem as I see it is that both politics and religion are a matter of faith and belief. They speak to our deepest feelings, hopes and fears. They are intertwined whether we would like them to be or not. The average believer, and by that I mean voter and person of faith, will neither be able or desire to seperate that which makes them believe what they believe and vote how they vote. </p>
<p>All other things being even, people tend to like people who believe as they do. Thats how they worship and how they vote: Step up and pray in the altar and step up and vote in the booth. Both often involve shrouds of privacy and mystery.</p>
<p>If it were otherwise we would all believe in the same thing and vote for the same candidate because it would all be a matter of fact, not belief.</p>
<p>Very cool to have been at the spot that launched the old crumdgeon into his final reward.</p>
<p>And I did not at all think that you were an evangelist for pure atheism. You seem to well rounded for that.</p>
<p>But asking a person to seperate their beliefs is like asking them to clap with one hand.</p>
<p>I’m not asking people to separate their religious beliefs from their political stances. That would be almost impossible, in terms of voting. What I resent is that our candidates are virtually required to be “religious” these days. And a certain kind of “religious.” They absolutely must be photographed coming out of a church on Easter, and they must profess a deep personal relationship with God, etc. Not that this is all bad, but it’s become the ultimate litmus test, and that bothers me. If an otherwise admirable, intelligent, highly qualified candidate indicated that he was atheist or Buddhist, or that he or she didn’t think “under God” belonged in the Pledge of Allegiance, he’d be crucified.</p>
<p>Clearly, I have too much time on my hands this afternoon.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Wow, you must run with a tough crowd. </p>
<p>I’d of thought that s/he would simply be denied the privilege of having their vote.</p>
<p>You know full well what I meant!</p>
<p>Hindoo: “Now I’m waiting for somebody to jump in and tell me that the founding fathers actually wanted them intertwined.”</p>
<p>Have you ever listened to Michael Medved? He’s a brilliant guy, and is a politically very conservative radio host with a national program (and a book, Right Turns, which describes his path from being a liberal Democrat to where he is today). He is also extremely religious and Jewish (conservative). He speaks very enthusiastically about all major religions, and their beneficial influence on individuals and society. </p>
<p>In any case, I think I have heard him say that very thing (that the founders of this country were religious men, and certainly intended it to be a nation “under God” so to speak).</p>
<p>I really like the separation of church and state, and think it is a turn-off when politicians do the walking into church parade. Yet Medved argues convincingly that the very existence of this country, with all of the obstacles it overcame, is so impossible that Divine influence had to play a role. His tag line is, “The Greatest Nation on God’s Green Earth”.</p>
<p>I bet his politics would drive you nuts, but interpersonally he is pretty irresistable in his eloquence, his nerdy charm, and his enthusiasm for the U.S.</p>
<p>I don’t know, Hindoo, </p>
<p>if I am ever in the same town as you and your rambunctious friends during Easter, Christmas or …President’s Day, I will be profusely professing a deep personal relationship with god and reciting the pledge of allegiance with my hand over my heart …‘till I get safely out of town.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>I can vouch for Hindoo’s extreme open-mindedness, tolerance, and friendly spirit of acceptance towards those who have completely different beliefs and views than his/her own. I have lived it, so you can take it to the bank.</p>
<p>Do a little CC research on our debates.</p>
<p>I’m blushing! … Actually, I respect a strong conservative argument, even if I don’t happen to agree with it. I’ve always been swept up in the sheer elegance of the late William F. Buckley’s words, and I have tremendous respect for George Will. Both annoyed me many times over the years, but not in the same way as, say, Limbaugh or O’Reilly. … Hmmm. I’ve just realized that if I like someone who politically differs from me, they’re “conservative.” If I don’t like them, they’re “right-wingers!” So beware of what I call you!</p>
<p>You’re just looking for trouble, aren’t you Woodwork? Your profusions of faith and pledging of allegiance to God would make you one of the masses in my part of the world! (Central Kentucky) I’m the one who probably ought to get safely out of town!</p>
<p>I’ll look up Michael Medved. In the backwoods where I live, we might not get him. Especially if he’s not a slobbering, slavering, incoherent whacko. That’s our specialty here.</p>
<p>And I continue with my one-person discussion. Woe …</p>