Hi, BrooklynRye
When you talk about different groups of fencers, do you separate them based on the Junior NPL?
Fist time posting here. Child is a sophomore, rated A and is hovering around top 10 on the cadets NPL. Child has Junior points, but not near the top of the list.
Just starting to read and gather information. Was hoping to visit a few campuses in North Carolina before April NAC/Championships, but it seems that child won’t be able to meet with coaches then.
It is based primarily on the Junior NPL. Cadet results are significant in the evolving recruitment potential of the fencer (e.g., coaches observing top cadets as sophomores in HS), but it’s the Junior rankings that are the focus.
Although I am not personally a fan of fencing ratings, there is no question that the top programs do not usually feature fencers with other than an A-rating.
Keep in mind that your fencer is not competing with everyone on the junior points list. Rather, they are competing with those fencers being recruited in their year. Not near the top generally, may transform into top 10 for recruiting purposes.
With all of the fencers applying to college, most looking for some hook if not outright formal recruitment, there has to be a way for coaches to narrow the field. Points is kind of like the standardized test of recruiting - It is a standard across the board and, for the most part, indicates the best fencers in the country and in that recruiting year.
This is not to say there are no diamonds in the rough and there are DV1 coaches known for seeking out those kinds of fencers. NCAA fencing is very different with its focus on 5-touch bouts. A lower ranked fencer who does phenomenally well in pools, but can’t seem to break through in DE rounds, may be a great option for an NCAA team.
The key as a parent who feels their fencer may not be in the upper tier, is to focus on those gifts and nuances that render their fencer more desirable to the right coach.
Good luck!
@pointyend Where your child is sounds similar to where mine was at that age, and is now on a top-tier Div1 fencing team. While in general what @BrooklynRye says about JPL is generally true, it isn’t an absolute. One of the things that set my child apart in addition to the top level Cadet ranking and A rating were stellar academics, which for the recruiting coaches was a significant advantage (they said this specifically). As has been said before, the school itself should match what your child is looking for outside of fencing, and that includes an academic match. Definitely look to where the JPL ranking is in relation to others in the same recruiting year but I would not let the JPL ranking dissuade you at this stage (there is still time for a change in the upcoming NACs too!). Good luck!
@SpaceVoyager is correct and it is important to keep the academic piece in mind. However, the most competitive teams are looking for the most competitive fencers. Academics become important as the next cut for the most competitive fencers via academic pre-reads, but ground zero starts with ranking. Fencers who are lower-ranked, but academically strong, appeal to less competitive programs, particularly at Ivies and other elite DV1 and DV3 schools, where academic standards are not as easily massaged to allow recruiting of a top prospect. Academics may also come into play where a top fencer’s AI requires balancing from a much stronger academic recruit. This is also true without such balancing, where it is just good for the team to have the higher scores. But for the most competitive teams, this all comes later in the recruiting process, after the top fencers have been filtered based almost exclusively on national points. Lower-ranked fencers with strong academics will have there day, but it won’t come at the most competitive programs until later in the recruiting cycle.
@BrooklynRye & @SpaceVoyager does the A rating become a big hinderance in recruiting especially at DV1 programs? My child also, a sophomore, has missed getting their A at least 10 times and several times by one touch on controversial calls. It’s actually become a running joke in the club amongst the teammates. But nonetheless frustrating for the fencer. Points wise my fencer is in the Top 10 by recruiting class in JNR points list and Top 5 in the CDT list by recruiting class). Hoping the curse of the A is broken at the next NAC.
I don’t imagine coaches care about whether a student has an A rating or not if they’ve had quality results in national or even international events. An A might have meaning for coaches not selecting from highly nationally ranked students as they would differentiate amongst fencers without national results.
@BrooklynRye - thanks! Child is the same top 10 on the JNL as compared to peers, but these current results aren’t really telling as they will be replaced with each new competition. When you say that coaches observe top cadets as sophomores in HS, how exactly is that happening? We’ve run across a few coaches at national competitions when my child would compete in Juniors/DivI against their fencers, but never came up to introduce ourselves.
Speaking about 5-touch bouts – I have 5 years worth of them from almost all of child’s competitions. Is it particularly valuable to create a Youtube channel to upload a few more recent ones for potential coaches to see? I know it is popular in other sports recruiting, but with fencing being such a small sport where we all run into each other at national competitions, I was wondering if this practice spills into fencing as well.
Which, in your opinion, are the most competitive teams?
@SpaceVoyager Thanks!
I so wish my child would be set apart by stellar academics… Unlike last year, this one won’t be a straight As year, although all of the classes are highest level. If it were up to me, I would choose academics over fencing…
College coaches won’t come up and introduce themselves to you- nor are they able to talk to you or your fencer if you approach them- prior to August 1 of the rising junior year. My fencer had a great zoom in June (end of sophomore year) with a college coach who said “say hi to me at the next tournament!” So at SN my fencer saw the coach and started to walk up to say hi, at which point the coach said “I can’t talk with you!” And turned away politely. My DS was pretty confused but we laughed about it. Your fencer sounds like they’re in a great spot re rankings and will catch the eye of coaches throughout junior year!
My DS never made a video. In hindsight I wish he had and I never forced him to. That said, he received several D1 offers and 2 D3 offers so perhaps it wasn’t a deal breaker, but there were a few schools he was interested in where a video might have helped bc the coaches weren’t frequently at NACs. As for your question about coaches watching cadet and younger fencers at NACs, you’d be surprised what you miss when you’re not looking for it or are focused on your fencer!! The college coaches most def walk around and will stand off to the side and watch. My DS told me last fall when I asked if he’d ever met a certain coach “that’s the guy who was always watching my pools last spring…”
Reposted from an earlier post:
A fencing-parent who was in high-level security, told me that, when his fencer was engaged in the recruiting process, they found that the coaches had seen his fencer at events dating back to his early teens. My friend noted, “I’m in elite security and I saw nothing!” Apropos of this, at one meeting with a top Ivy coach, the coach noted that he had first seen my fencer when the kid was 12 years old, at an SYC!
Having just finished reading every single post from this thread, I now recognize this anecdote from you!
Wow, what a massive effort from you and others to share your knowledge and provide advice. What is even more commendable is the fact that you continue to do so even though your child has been out of the recruitment process for years now.
Thank you!
I think I have a general understanding of a roadmap at this point.
Thank you for your responses. My child has been attending national competitions for years now — had an early start in this wonderful sport and has had several significant achievements as a youth fencer. Still, never noticed anyone watching my child on the sidelines 
Also, fencing in Juniors is a whole different game. Hope my child is able to keep up!
Enjoy the sport, enjoy the ride. Target the truly best fit at college for your fencer. The rest has a way of taking care of itself. We tend to be consumed with the “glory” stories, with DV1 programs, and with dreams of NCAA Championships. This is not the road for most and should not be the Holy Grail. Fencing offers tremendous opportunities for travel, learning, and friendships. It offers opportunities to compete in college, at whatever level suits, while perhaps providing an edge to get into some of the finest colleges in the nation. Above all though it is about joy. My fencer is sad not to be fencing, but it is because of how much sheer joy my fencer derived from the experience. My fencer would not trade this for anything in the world, even though it had to end and my fencer had to move on. We will, however, continue to pay it forward for as long as we can be relevant to the conversation. This is what people did for us from my fencer’s first competition through my fencer’s last.
Well my daughter just finished 5 years as a D1 fencer. It was a very emotional NCAA regional competition this year. During her experience she improved immensely as an athlete, overcame injury, attended NCAA’s, and watched her school become ranked for the first time in program history.
Yesterday she participated in a Girls In Sports Clinic where she introduced young girls to the sport she loved. The school posted a photo of her teaching a group of girls-total full circle moment for me.
Thankful, thankful, thankful for her experience!
Just to give you a data point. Not having an A (similar situation to your kid, missed it several times…including winning a ROC) was not a hindrance in my kid’s recruitment journey.
Thanks for that reference. I don’t think it matters too much, but we were concerned that it would be a negative point when reaching out to schools. I think as long as our fencer just keeps an open mind, casts a wide net and finds a right fit between academics and athletics they will be fine.
…and keeping this as grounded and open as possible, note that the 2022 Collegiate Club Fencing Championships hosted more than 40 teams and featured more than 700 fencers.
I heard a D1 program that’s female only is considering adding men team… has anybody heard the same? If true, would be a great news for the high school boys
Cornell is perennially talking about reinstating its men’s program. A couple of years back there was a big push to raise the money to accomplish this. I don’t know if this was continued after the then-coach departed or how far along they may be in this endeavor.
There is also talk about reinstating the men’s program at Brown. This one was somewhat unceremoniously discontinued (the women’s was later reinstated), and I think there is a lot of bad feeling among alum as well as for current and former fencers at the school.
Other strong women’s programs that could be competitive if they had a men’s program include Northwestern and Temple. I have not heard anything about these schools adding a men’s program though.