Just another plug in for Club fencing. My S23 got to compete this past weekend at the JHU open on his club team. They ended up 2-2 against varsity teams beating Lafayette and Drew and 2-1 against other club teams. Shout out to both the W&M and Rutgers club teams for some great fencing (while having fun!!)
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@nittany You make a good point, and the odds are even better than you imply.
- Some NCAA teams carry rosters that are quite large. Take Northwestern as an example. Their women’s epee squad is currently 13 I believe. This implies they take 2-4 new fencers per weapon per year.
- Each year, there are a number of current fencers on NCAA teams that choose not to continue, so coaches need to bring in more than usual to replace unexpected “churn” in their squad.
- Most weapon squads are at least 5 or 6, not 4, so even the smallest NCAA teams will take more than one fencer per weapon in some years
- Many high school fencers, even those on the national point list, decide to not continue fencing in college, so even if there are 40 graduating fencers on the national point list, there may only be 20-30 of them that continue fencing
- There are many Div 3 teams that are happy to have ANY high school experienced fencer join their squads. Most fencers on Div 3 squads were never on a national point list and were C, D, E, or U fencers when they joined their NCAA team
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I think the odds of fencing in college, whether through the NCAA or USACFC, are very good. The caveat is the level of competition, recruiting and/or financial support, and recognition the fencer is seeking.
The more competitive (NCAA fencing among the roughly 10 or so most competitive DV1 programs), financial (non-Ivy, non-D3, mostly “big box” schools), recruiting (maybe 3-4 slots per year at the most competitive programs), and recognition (competing for a divisional and, more importantly, for a national title) sought by the fencer, the smaller and smaller the window.
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I have generally found that due to misimpressions from recent media articles (particularly one that made it seem that anyone who picks up a blade lands at Harvard) most parents seem to be be aiming for an Ivy, (plus MIT or Stanford). I’ve had parents come to me with unrated and unranked fencers who have even been fencing for several years under the misimpression that their work would advantage them at highly selective schools.
Maybe that was more true 10 years ago, but with literally many hundreds of kids at each event at JO’s it is not true anymore. It would be healthier for the sport, and healthier for a lot of families, to acknowledge this misimpression exists and to correct it.
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It is mathematical. There have been tournaments where I knew the fencers registered and figures out the pool ahead of time, which you can do based on just the seedings. So no real possibilities for manipulation.
Hello, I want to know what is the policy from FIE or USA fencing for fencers representing different countries? There is a WF fencer at recruiting age representing other country and will probably go to cadet junior world championship 2024 representing the other country, but she is also on the USA fencing WF senior team point list. Is that allowed?
Yes, fencers representing other countries are allowed to fence in then US and earn rolling points, just not team points; the latter is how the teams are selected for the world championships, so they would not be selected to represent the US in an international tournament.
Fencers representing other countries are also allowed to fence in college here, including at NCAA Divisions.
I believe all of this is explained in documentation on the USAFencing website if you want to read lengthy rules documents 
Thread has been quiet for a bit. Wanted to note that there seems to be quite a bit of turn over/changes to fencing coaches lately. With Tufts, Duke, Penn State, Air Force (and Yale over the past few years)…and now today’s announcement that both longtime coaches at Stanford Fencing will retire this year. I guess maybe Princeton and UPenn may be on the brink as long tenure coaches reach the end of their coaching cycle? Wonder how that plays on the next recruitment cycle especially if these existing coaches have locked in recruits?
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This is an important dynamic. A successor coach may not necessarily be bound by the recruiting choices of his/her predecessor. It is certainly something to consider when deciding whether or not to rely on a particular commitment. I believe there were relatively recent mid-recruiting period changes at Harvard as well as at Yale. Perhaps those who experienced these changeovers or have insight into them can provide more information.
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No, but in the vast majority of cases they honor the commitments. I think the challenge is more on how the recruit feels about the new coach. Regardless of the sport, it’s important to make sure the school is right above all else.
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Hello everyone, I would like to ask a very confusing question. It is that if a fencer has a Division I school, such as an Ivy League coach interested in her. Then assuming the coach is from a NEED BLIND school, if she is eligible for financial aid (if the family income is below the school’s requirements). Because my understanding is that financial aid for need blind schools is for everyone.
But I have heard that as long as one is recruited into an Ivy school through fencing, one has to waive the eligibility for financial aid. Hopefully an experienced parent can help explain.
Thank you all.
A family with financial need will receive need based aid from the Ivy League schools (according to how they calculate the family’s need.) Being a recruited athlete does NOT negate receiving need based aid.
Most, if not all, of the Ivy League schools will do financial aid pre-reads for the athletic recruits. Have your student ask the coach about this and the timing. Each school also has a net price calculator on their website that will estimate your financial aid.
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Thanks! I have another question: Can an international student athlete receive financial aid if they are in contact with an Ivy League school that provides need-blind admissions for all students (such as HYP, and possibly Brown starting next year)?
I am asking because a friend of mine whose child is in discussions with a coach told me that her child may not be eligible for financial aid from the school if recruited by an Ivy League school (even if they have need-blind admissions for international students).
Ivy League schools give need based aid and meet full need for all students who qualify (again, as calculated by the school) including international students.
Whether or not a school meets full financial need of students is a separate issue from the school being need blind/need aware. Not all Ivy League schools are need blind for international applicants (ivies that are need blind for internationals: Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Dartmouth, and Brown), but all Ivies meet full need for all students.
I have not heard of international athletic recruits not being allowed to receive need based financial aid (assuming they have financial need as calculated by the school.)
However, a coach may choose to not recruit a student who has financial need, and coaches usually ask whether or not a family is applying for financial aid (many schools prefer to enroll full pay international students.)
And just to be clear, if a need blind school does a financial aid pre-read for an athletic recruit, well, they aren’t need blind for that student anymore.
Breathing life into this thread as it’s almost Aug 1. My son vacillates between fencing full time and other high school sports. He’s been at a super competitive club since 2020, he is unranked. Last fall, when he was a sophomore, he competed heavily in the fall, but fell off in January for a high school sport and also to become a ski instructor.
Now he wants to fence in college and drop the other sports. How late are we to this game fall of junior year? He’s signed up to compete in the fall, but I think chances of a ranking in September/October are small. His grades are good, not great (mostly As, few Bs). He did fence all spring and summer. We have been told that the current Cadet level in the US is untouchable and very competitive. Any advice for managing the process and his expectations is appreciated.
“Need Blind” refers only to admissions decisions, not financial aid. It means that when making admissions decisions the school won’t factor in whether or not a family will need a financial aid. I am wondering if you mean “MEETS NEED” which means that if admitted to a college, the school will only require students to pay their “SAI” or “EFC” - the amount FAFSA says the family can afford, and not more than that.
I think some of this depends on what your son means by “wants to fence in college.” If he wants to fence for an Ivy, his grades probably won’t clear their admittance bar. If he wants to fence for one of the other top schools (ex. Notre Dame, Ohio State, Penn State, etc.), his lack of rating and ranking will almost certainly be a non-starter.
But, if his goal is to get into a school with a fencing program and have the opportunity to be on a varsity fencing team in college - that’s a different story. There are lots of schools with varsity fencing teams, and varying admittance criteria.
In broad brush strokes, my daughter’s journey was similar to your son’s. She did lots of other activities in HS that kept her from devoting herself full-time to fencing, she was unrated (and unranked) through-out HS, and she didn’t really decide she wanted to fence in college until then end of junior/beginning of senior year. She emailed out to coaches at universities she was interested in. Some replied, many did not. But she ended up having 2 coaches (at smaller schools) who were open to her walking on - one of whom she eventually had a sit down with at the Junior Olympics. She ended up at a small DIII program, spent her first year as a rotation/part-time starter, became a starter her sophomore year, set school records her junior year, and was a DIII All-American her senior year.
So, the short version is - it is not too late, as long as your son tempers his expectations. Small schools/programs may not be what your son is envisioning right now, but they offer great opportunities to participate and to grow his skills. And the small schools still face many of the top programs and fencers in the NCAA since all divisions compete with each other.
Best of luck to you and your son.
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What @saharafrog said! There are a number of fantastic DIII schools and also – as many have discussed on this thread previously – many good schools with high quality clubs (not speaking from experience, just what I have heard through the years we were involved, so maybe others with that experience want to chime in). A walk-on spot is what is most doable without a ranking or rating; if you are looking for a rating, your son should try to do as many local/regional tournaments as possible (e.g., ROCs). FWIW, that was super helpful to my child as a way to get great experience and practice.
Good luck!
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Thank you! He would be a better fit at a smaller school and I have my eye on some of the DIII as well. He’s away training now but will be back in two weeks, so I will re-group with him then. Thanks again for your thoughtful reply and thanks for sharing your daughter’s journey!
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Thank you as well! He was looking into local tournaments yesterday (without me asking!!) so I am already encouraged. I think a DIII or club would be just his speed.