I agree with @superdomestique here. The entire college fencing season purports to be a team sport, but these team scores matter zero percent in qualifying and competing in the championship. Is collegiate fencing a team sport? For the regular season, yes. For the championships, no.
Columbia and Notre Dame could literally lose every team dual event they were in all season long, but have 2 Olympians for each gender/weapon fence the minimum qualifying bouts during the season and win the national championship. Is there any other NCAA sport where your team can lose every event all season and win the national championship? It’s like the fencing regular season and the team-based dual events really don’t matter AT ALL, except as individual events.
Also, approximately 10% of the NCAA teams are women only – and there’s no acknowledgement of this at all.
Very much agree with both of my old friends (@superdomestique & @stencils). In fact, the current system makes regionals more important than the championship. First, Northeast Regionals are grueling. Much harder then Nationals. Second, Midwest Regionals are a cakewalk for a perennial powerhouse such as UND. I like the idea of a 2-tiered system in which there are multi-championship tracks recognizing teams that can never qualify the full compliment of fencers and those that are single-gender. Not sure how they account for so many different qualifying levels, but the current system solely favors Big Box and elite Ivy programs.
Hi, I’m a CDTWE A rated ranked outside of the 100 for juniors and 20 for cadets, and I haven’t been able to break into T8 at NACs yet after Y14. I’m starting to look into potential colleges for recruitment, and I was wondering if high ranked DIV Is and Ivies would even be a strong possibility. So far, I took the SAT and PSAT once to get 1500 on both (planning on retaking), and I’m taking all honors/AP classes but I would be ending this year with a B in one of my classes. I feel like I would be able to get higher on the rankings by next year, but I also feel like I’m running out of time. Would focusing on other extracurricular activities like internships and research projects be a better choice so I could maybe walk-on? Thank you!
IMO, epee is the quirky weapon for which all top programs look diamonds in the rough. However, your inability to crack top 8 combined with that B, will make it tough. I would say to target Ivies that field less competitive teams such as Brown and Yale, but the academics really have to be top notch with less showing on the fencing side. Frankly, I would target DVIII programs. There are some elite schools, where your top 20 cadets and an improved (hopefully) junior points standing, combined with high standardized test scores and an AP academic schedule, might appeal to a Johns Hopkins, for example. ECs and research are OK, but they have to be really special to distinguish you from so many others with those pieces. I know that the Ivies are the gold standard, and I don’t know your post-graduate aspirations, but do your research on Brandeis, Haverford and other DVIII’s as well as considering top club programs at places such as Michigan. Good luck!
I’ll second what @BrooklynRye said and add this: what exactly are your goals? What kind of school do you want to be at (large/small/urban/rural/general liberal arts/STEM focused, etc.)? Is it a dream of yours to be able to fence in college, or are you just trying to use it as a hook for admission (which is never a good reason, imo)? You could then create a matrix of schools with the assets you are looking for and visit them/talk with people about what they are like, etc.. There are many excellent schools where you can fence that are not the ivies – which ones are places where you want to be studying? It’s also a tough time for universities these days, given everything that is going on nationally (I’m so sorry for students), so that might be something to consider, i.e., what is the atmosphere at the schools, how secure is their funding, etc.. And good luck again!
I have a question for all the NCAA fencing experts on this forum: Does filling out recruiting questionnaires on college websites actually help? Does anyone actually read them, or do coaches just stick to their list of potential recruits they have been following for years? My DD (currently a sophomore in HS) is a late starter, but I think her progress, considering she has only been fencing for three years, is good: top 20 in Cadet and top 50 in Junior. I’m just trying to figure out the best strategy to get her on the radar of Div I coaches. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
Send emails directly to the coaches (including assistants and recruiting coaches, as applicable.) Email should have a strong subject line and the HS grad year. Include academics and fencing highlights in email.. Include a highlight reel (not more than 2 minutes) with best highlights first.
It can, but many coaches have no idea where that info even goes. LOL. Do the emails. Some coaches will ask you then to fill out the recruiting questionnaire.
Recruits can initiate contact at any time…so, she can send the emails now to get on their radar, coaches just can’t respond until the NCAA date. Note the recruits initiating contact is key, this is how some early commits happen. For example, a college coach tells the club coach to have the recruit call me at 8pm next Tuesday.
Hi FatherofDragon –
As a fellow parent that has just gone through the recruiting process/stress (my daughter is currently a junior, was in a similar position standings-wise as DD, and ultimately was fortunate enough to get recruiting offers from three amazing D1 schools), these would be my suggestions/comments:
Email DD’s fencing resume to all the schools/coaches you guys are interested in right after Summer Nationals. The schools will want the latest results and hopefully, DD, will do well enough in the tournaments between now and then to enhance the resume.
Make a youtube video of DD’s top 5-7 full pool bouts and include the link in the fencing resume and/or email you send. They don’t have to all be bouts that DD won; more importantly, they should be against solid/tough competition (i.e. her recruiting peers or better) so coaches can see DD’s range/versatility/adjustments, etc, in different situations
If you are aiming for one of the “top, most desired, academically-elite D1 schools”, they typically make their offers and are mostly done recruiting by late November/December. That means the remaining tournaments this season and the tournaments in the coming fall are the “high point” for their recruiting/results. If your family/DD has the means and time, do all the international events that DD is eligible for. (Normally, the top 20 cadet ranked fencers are eligible for the international tournaments.) This will give DD up to 4 extra events (that only these 20 girls have the opportunity to do) to gain significant points to move up the rankings and help DD’s recruiting profile.
Email all the coaches an updated resume in/around November after DD’s most recent competition (e.g. either November NAC or international event)
Good luck! It will be a very stressful period, but hopefully, all your efforts will be rewarded. Please feel free to message me directly if you have questions or want to discuss more (details, etc).
Ideally, potential recruited athletes should take an SAT/ACT in the summer after soph year. Even at test optional schools, many coaches want a test score. It can be an advantage to have a strong test score relatively early.
From there, typically, the coach will present the test score to admissions with other pre-read materials, and then admissions says whether or not to apply with the test score (assuming the student passes the pre-read, is offered a coach supported slot, verbally commits to the team, and applies.)
And yes, for committed athletes they have to keep their grades and rigor up. I have known a number of commits (across many sports and levels of school) who were dropped due to relatively low grades.
Yes, the high demand schools start extending offers in late fall of junior year, and that starts the “musical chairs” or “dominoes” effect for other schools to make their offers and fill their spots once recruits commit to schools and “come off the board”.
As Mwfan1921 stated, recruits should try to get an acceptable SAT/ACT score by the fall of junior year (so he/she may want to plan to take it in the summer and fall in case one sitting doesn’t go well). The schools will normally do pre-reads (for GPA, SAT/ACT, classes, etc) and have a good comfort level that a recruit will likely pass admissions before extending an offer. After the acceptance of the offer, the student must maintain an expected level of coursework and grades through the official application/admission process.
The other recommendation that I strongly suggest (which I forgot to mention in my earlier post) would be to visit as many of the schools that DD is very interested in between now and the end of the summer. Once school starts in the fall, DD will be so busy juggling responsibilities like tough junior year academics, fencing practices and competitions/travel, SAT/ACT prep, drivers ed, etc, it will be hard to find extra time to visit schools. (Hopefully) once any recruiting offers start coming in the late fall, you don’t want to be in a position of having to decide on an offer without ever seeing the school. Ideally, you/DD will have seen most of the schools that DD is very interested in (and/or that are realistic) so if DD gets an offer from any of those schools, then DD will have already seen the school and can make a better informed decision.
We learned the hard way. We visited schools too late and weren’t able to see all my daughter’s target schools. Ultimately, she had to make decisions on offers/schools without ever seeing a number of her target/possible options. Good luck!
Hi, this is a late reply but I was able to make a top 8 at a junior NAC and balance my fencing+school work! However I think my results came in too late and a few coaches have told me that they don’t have spots but want me to apply ED w/ a rec letter. Do these rec letters have any pull and do they only apply if you chose to go ED? I also had a coach tell me that I could take a gap year and they would consider me for a recruit the following year. Not really sure what is the best move right now, any advice would be appreciated!
I believe that @superdomestique can speak to late top results at NACs and the potential impact on recruitment. Rec letters very much depend on the school and on the coach. Generally I don’t think they improve chances to as high as 50/50, although some may. I am very against contorting one’s academic path to accommodate athletic recruiting. You are not a basketball player aligning a shot at the NBA where you can make millions. This is pretty much a one-off before entering ‘real life’. That said, it is a personal choice and we know fencers who have done this successfully. Just remember that, in all this, there are no guarantees!
@BrooklynRye I am sure my information is dated, however assuming @Fejdy is just finishing his/her junior year, it is possible many of the recruiting spots at the top program have already been committed. However with SN still coming up, a strong performance can change minds.
In our case (which is now ten year ago), our fencer was outside the top 8 on the JNPL going into SN and while we had contacted all the coaches of the top programs, no one was encouraging.
At SN (the one before senior year), two important things happened.
Our fencer had two podium finishes (top 3)
The top fencer in our age category/weapon shocked the recruiting class by choosing the top ranked program over the most prestigious program.
All the fencers in our recruiting year had made their commitments based on the top fencer going to the most prestigious program so the news of this not happening completely rocked the recruiting class.
With the results my fencer had at SN (which moved the JNPL ranking into the top 8), we immediately became part of the conversations and by the middle of August had a commitment from a top program that had shown only minor interest earlier in the year.
I guess the lesson here is to keep all lines of communications to coaches open and to do your best at SN.
Separately, I don’t think anything short of formal recruiting support (LL or equivalent) matters much. I have heard of/seen too many kids who apply with a coaches rec letter where the letter made no difference. The gap year strategy is a really tough way to go and there have been very few instances where it has been successful. A lot depends on how much patience and financial resources you have.
Hi of course. I was always in the 70-80s on the junior points list so I had no expectations of hearing back from any d1 colleges. The ones I did hear back from pretty much told me that they could write me a letter of rec and have me apply ED. Just recently, I managed to secure a t8 finish in Juniors at a NAC which pushed my national ranking around 30~ places up but I don’t think it really made that much of a difference in terms of recruitment prospects. I will say that if I had gotten my result earlier in Junior year than my current circumstances might be different.