The Orchardist – April CC Book Club Selection

Parent Cafe
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<p>I agree. Some of the imagery was very lovely indeed. It’s what kept me going when the plot and characters let me down.</p>

<p>I really enjoyed everyone’s comments about connections to places that are filled with memories for them. My family lived in Germany for three years when I was a child and I have never been back, but to this day I will sometimes see a photo or an object or an architectural detail of a building that reminds me of that time very sharply and poignantly. </p>

<p>Later, we lived in Texas for ten years or so. I have not been back there since I was a young adult, but certain things are graven in my memory. When I saw the movie Tree of Life, there was nothing to indicate that it was shot in Texas, but when I saw the vegetation in the movie family’s yard, I thought, “That looks like Houston”…and I was right!</p>

<p>Wow, mathmom, Somalia. Can you imagine how exiles or even immigrants to a very different part of the world must feel?</p>

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<p>Me too!</p>

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<p>Mathmom, I love your reading choices. I’m halfway between Storm of Swords as well.
I thought it was very much like real life in that we only got little glimpses of what happened to some of the charactors. Life is so like that</p>

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<p>Even though I’ve spent large stints of my life overseas, including five years in Germany in my 20’s I can’t imagine being an immigrant and really giving up your country of birth. My hat is off to every one of them for that act of courage. The longer I spent in Germany the more American I felt!</p>

<p>Similarly I think the restless settlers moving west must have been special people - communication with anyone you left behind was so slow and unreliable.</p>

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<p>Well, I’m late again, but I notice we haven’t answered all Mary’s questions yet, so I guess it’s okay! And I really want to chime in, because I absolutely loved this book! Possible errors notwithstanding, I felt immersed in the wonderful sense of place, and Coplin has such sympathy and kindness toward all her characters. Even with the unlikeable ones she tried to show their thought process, their feelings, how what they said and did might make sense in context. (Unlike, for example, The Glass Room, where I found myself most in sympathy with the “character” of the room. And I think I liked that book better than most people here!)</p>

<p>From SJCM:

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<p>I agree completely–I wanted more of a nice ending, but as with Talmadge wanting Della to come “home,” life doesn’t always work out that way.</p>

<p>I also agree with ignatius that Talmadge is not sad, but haunted. I think he had a happy life–he had friends, fulfilling work he was good at, people who admired and loved him, a peaceful death. Angelene hesitates when she tells Della she has a happy life, too, but I think that’s just because she’s never thought in those terms. We don’t know exactly what happens in her life, but Coplin leaves us open to believing that it’s good.</p>

<p>We don’t know much about Talmadge’s mother, but she’s an interesting character, and I think Della reminds him of his mother’s determination and stubbornness. Like Della, she left a place of sadness and marched off into the unknown: “she yearned for complete solitude that verged on the violent.”</p>

<p>Has anyone read “Away,” by Amy Bloom? It’s a beautiful book, one of my favorites, about a young Russian immigrant woman in the 1920’s who goes on a road trip alone in search of her possibly-still alive daughter. This book had the same psychological understanding for the characters.</p>

<p>I’m so sorry about your cousin, mathmom; that’s very sad.</p>

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<p>^^^ I never thought of the similarities between Talmadge’s mother and Della. Good, good point. I thought only of his sister’s disappearance influencing his actions.</p>

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<p>and yea! just because I feel much the same way and wondered if no one liked it as much as I do.</p>

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<p>Oh, I liked it very much! I hope that has come across in my posts. I do try to step back and think critically as we discuss books–I appreciate having both the bad and the good called to my attention, and I like to think about the overall quality of the work.</p>

<p>But in terms of gut appeal, The Orchardist really resonated with me. I think I read it at the right time. I found the description of Talmadge’s death–his slipping away and his final interactions with Angelene–both deeply moving and authentic:</p>

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<p>Having just gone through those final stages with my Dad, I read that passage and thought, “Yes. This is exactly how it is.” Like Angelene, I dream about my father now. I found those last few pages difficult to get through because they hit so close to home, but they were cathartic, too. I’m glad we read this book.</p>

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<p>^ I reread the very moving section describing Talmadege’s final days. Coplin, cleverly summarizes Talmadges’s life, by writing " He had NEVER been a boy afraid…never regretted not laying hands on Michaelson…He had never been awed by Della…never cried for his mother…ect …</p>

<p>Once again I needed tissues…and, I’m sure this impacted many, especially you, Mary. </p>

<p>** Ignatius ** Put me in the camp who liked/ loved this book, but when a friend returned it to the library after 100 pages, I realized, it isn’t a book loved by all, and another friend only read the Kindle sample, and decided againt it.
I wonder if being a pessimist or optimist, affects our overall impression of the book, our “gut” reaction as Mary mentioned. So I, now, recommend this book,with reservations and disclaimers.</p>

<p>I agree with **NJ theater mom ** Very interesting backgrounds, and ** mathmom’s ** Somalia, the most exotic ! (On a side note about a week after reading The Orchardist, I happened to catch “Out of Africa” on TV , and was swept away by the " sense of place" by the beauty of Africa. Yes, I had seen the movie before, maybe even twice, but was more profoundly aware of Karen Blixen’s ** depiction ** of the landscape" thanks to Coplin’s book. )</p>

<p>Question- Why did Talmadge feel compelled to rip out the apple trees? Certainly, they could grow unattended? I didn’t understand why that happened?</p>

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<p>Part of it may have been psychological: It would have been painful for both Talmadge and Angelene to watch their well-tended and carefully pruned trees grow wild and bear useless fruit. Also, Talmadge (perhaps subconsciously) may have been preparing a smaller space for Angelene to contend with, as he would soon not be there to help her.</p>

<p>More importantly, on a practical level, I believe (from internet reading, not from any prior knowledge) that leaving fruit trees untended makes them prone to disease. (Remember, the apple trees were diseased when Talmadge, Elsbeth and their mother first arrived on the abandoned land.) Diseased trees can affect the healthy ones around them. “Diseases common to apples that should be controlled are scab, black rot, bitter rot, alternaria and fire blight. Damaging insects are apple tree borers, red spider mites, scales, aphids and fruit worms.” [Growing</a> Apples - Hoegger Farmyard](<a href=“Hoegger Supply > Catalog”>Hoegger Supply > Catalog). Talmadge wouldn’t have wanted any of that spreading to the trees he was keeping.</p>

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<p>^When I was a teen, we were very poor and would go around to places where people had “abandoned” apple trees in their yards/farms and steal the fallen apples. Or even the ones on the tree if we could get to them. They were often bruised (from falling) and worm eaten, but we peeled and cut them and made applesauce and apple butter, etc., which we canned for the winter.</p>

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<p>I connected with the orchards in this book because I grew up in a small town in Wisconsin known for its sour cherry and apple production. We lived next to large orchards, and had some undeveloped property with old apple trees. Often a neighboring farmer would spray these trees when he tended his own–not only so we could eat our apples, but so his trees would not catch any of the pests or viruses to which orchard plants are susceptible. One of my favorite times of year was during the blooming season, when one could walk along the orchard rows inhaling the very delicate, sweet fragrance of the pale pink flowers. It’s just dreamy! We also had an old sour apple tree in our back yard, and when it dropped its wormy, unsprayed apples, they would soften, turn a mushy brown, and ferment…Blah! My mother eventually got rid of the tree because it was such pain. I remember well having to clean up the rotten apples–which also attracted yellow jackets. </p>

<p>My kids raised citrus trees down here, in Florida, and we still have a few in our suburban yard. They’re slowly dying, I fear, of a very contagious disease that is predicted to wipe out most dooryard citrus: citrus greening. It makes me sad to see these little trees my kids planted, slowly fading, but I can’t remove them yet. </p>

<p>Orange blossoms, and groves of citrus are headily powerful when they’re blooming. The scent is heavy, and drifts for miles, especially when a little breeze moves the warmed air at night. We were lucky to spend a day with an old time Floridian grove owner, in his groves, when my kids were little; the kidlets even drove the tractor, explored corners of old Florida, investigated a county wide water reclamation area used for “free” water for the groves, and eventually gave trees to this owner, who also supported the kids financially (4-H). He just died, earlier this week, as I discovered upon seeing the obit in the paper. As part of the citrus projects, we competed with trees the kids grew from newly grafted saplings, attended citrus ID and disease classes through the UF extension, explored the financial aspects of maintaining a grove and even marketing the fruit. There was so much to learn, but learn we did–and with pleasure.</p>

<p>All this is to say that fruit trees, both southern and northern, provoke many, many special memories for me and for that reason, I loved passages in this book about the orchards (citrus is always grown in groves, BTW, as I know since I was corrected from the get-go down here :slight_smile: In the end, I thought the destruction of Talmadge’s orchard was heart-breaking. I didn’t understand it, since the only time I’ve seen orchards or groves dug up is for development of the land, when trees had just aged out, or for extermination of disease ridden trees (lots of this for citrus canker). Orchard destruction in the book left me with a negative, sad feeling, especially since it was such a sign of building life for Talmadge and his family. It didn’t seem realistic, from my point of view, and almost spiteful. Poor trees!</p>

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<p>What a beautiful post, PlantMom. Thanks for sharing that.</p>

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<p>^ ditto what ** NJ TheaterMom ** said about ** Plantmom’s** post- lovely. You certainly have an appropriate screen name.
Also, ** Sylvan ** what an interesting life you’ve had. Care to share which state you lived in during your apple gathering years? My guess Vermont? ( Probably influenced by the 1980s movie Baby Boom)</p>

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<p>^Pennsylvania, SJCM - hence the screen name sylvan! :)</p>

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<p>Thanks PlantMom and sylvan8798. It seems like parts of the The Orchardist have summoned vivid memories for many of us. I think CC book club members’ “backstories” are better than those of the characters in any of our books.</p>

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<p>If you want a good Somali story, our first day in the country a British woman gave my mother a cucumber and told her she wouldn’t see another one unless she grew her own. We did end up having our own garden, but water was so scarce that we used the gray water from the sink to water it. To this day a whiff of sewer gas brings back memories just like Proust’s madeleines.</p>

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<p>Wow!</p>

<p>(10 char)</p>

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<p>^ Oh my, I think I’d prefer to have my remembrance of things past triggered by the taste of madeleines rather than a whiff of sewer gas! :)</p>

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<p>Glad you’re here! I haven’t walked us through the individual questions this time because our free-ranging discussion seems to be bringing up better ones, and because many of the questions on the list are answered naturally as we discuss the book (for example, “Explore Della’s character” and “What type of person does Angelene grow up to be?”). There are also a couple of questions with answers so obvious that they fall into the “Who is buried in Grant’s Tomb?” category, e.g., “Do you think Talmadge thought of himself as Angelene’s father?”</p>

<p>I will add, though, as far as that question goes, that I liked the way Coplin described how parenthood filled Talmadge with feelings that were both “wondrous and terrifying,” as question 7 put it. Isn’t that always the way? I also enjoyed Talmadge’s musings as he observed young Angelene:</p>

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<p>I remember that feeling so well.</p>

<p>I have a question (not from the list). What do you think was the purpose of Maggie P. in the book? She’s another strong woman, but not part of the core family of characters. Her character is developed just enough that you think she’ll play an important role, but then she’s gone. Is she there simply to be placed in juxtaposition to Della, with Maggie P.’s exuberance a stark contrast to Della’s reticence?</p>

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<p>I was puzzled by Maggie. She clearly provides a mothering role to Angelene, something she did not manage to succeed at with Jane and Della. I thought it was odd that Tallmedge often overnighted at her house (the neighbors weren’t scandalized?) but there was never any hint of a sexual relationship, in fact the opposite. There were hints that she might be gay, which might explain that .</p>

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<p>^ You’re thinking of Caroline Middey – and yes, I would like to delve into her character too! I was thinking of the minor character of Maggie, the talkative fruit picker who befriends Della and provides her with an unusual bit of peace in her life. (“Della, for some reason, when she slept near Maggie P., slept deeply, and woke refreshed” [p. 164].)</p>