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<p>You’d think that, but I’ve known people with high GPAs who couldn’t fake communication skills. Sure, none of them had 45 MCAT scores, but would you argue that people with 3.9+ GPAs are somehow significantly dumber than whatever sort of person gets a 45 on the MCAT? I wouldn’t.</p>
<p>jason, you’re just flat out wrong. If anything, some of the brainiest people have MORE trouble communicating with people. The smartest kid in my class is going into pathology so he doesn’t have to deal with normal people :D. </p>
<p>How does one fake communication skills anyways? If you are able to communicate effectively, doesn’t that by definition mean you have communication skills?</p>
<p>lets be honest. Most extrordinarily (40+ MCATs) smart people are articulate in expressing their ideas. If hardpressed, they can fake confidence, kindness, and whatever other ideal-crap-physician-quality that floats your boats.</p>
<p>I’m not sure where you get that idea, jason. In my experience, intelligence (however you want to define that) has little correlation with social skills. Some people are intelligent and good communicators, others are intelligent and not so good at communication. How does being “smart” make one good at faking social interaction skills?</p>
<p>MCAT score, for one, is not solely based on your IQ. Being a good doctor is not solely based on your IQ. Analytical IQ, which is what most people consider as “IQ” does not necessarily tie over to other human interactions such as communication. House isn’t the ideal doctor, turn off your television and get over it. You have no idea how many students with stellar MCAT scores and GPA are rejected from Harvard and other top schools because of the sad fact that that is often all they have going for them. I KNOW this. Unlike you, I"m not speculating about medical admissions based on what I think is true or want to be the case. I spend every day in the admissions suite, I chat with the deans and other adcom members every day, and I am telling you that if a jackass with a 4.0 and a 45T and no ECs showed up he or she would not accepted to my school. You need extra curriculars, you need research, you need to demonstrate passion for medicine and for other things. If you don’t believe me, then by all means go through the process and argue with me afterwards.</p>
<p>The only people that ask me about my MCAT score are pre-meds. Medical students don’t ask, residents don’t ask, doctors don’t ask. The MCAT score is worshiped by pre-meds, but it is not the be all end all that it is perceived to be. It is not the only measure of what a good doctor is, and it is most definitely is not the only thing that adcoms care about. Once you go through a cycle you will realize this after you see all of the astounding things that people have done and how your MCAT score ultimately isn’t the final decider of where you get in.</p>
<p>Are there geniuses who do not realise that certain EC’s are reguired by Medical School? Kind of hard to imagine that 4.0, 35+ is dumb enough not to know this simple fact that most HS kids are aware of and start being actively involved in volunteering/shadowing/ interning or working at Med. Reasearch Lab and building their connection while still in HS.</p>
<p>I know a Berkeley ~3.8/36 who tried applying exclusively to top-ten programs with only a few church-related EC’s. No volunteering, no shadowing, and definitely no research. His friends tried to prod him to do research, “but I know this one girl who got into UCSF without research.”</p>
<p>(She was a 4.0/40 who ran San Quentin’s HIV/AIDS clinic for two years.)</p>
<p>His lack of research was particularly egregious, since his mother actually *runs a research lab. *He applied to ten schools and got no interviews.</p>
<p>MiamiDAP- THANK YOU!!!</p>
<p>c mon guys…</p>
<p>If someone is smart enough to get a 40+ on MCAT, he’s smart enough to buy a copy of MSAR and read it. IT is logical for him to then flip through it and decide “hmm… research and extracurricular and this ‘compassion’ thing is important. Maybe i should get some of that.”</p>
<p>How many 40+ MCAT kids are there? Not many. How many of them have no extracurriculars? Even fewer. How many of them get rejected to excellent medical schools? unimaginably few.</p>
<p>Actually there’s about 500 applicants per year with a 39+ and most of them do have extra curriculars. You are changing the argument, this isn’t about a great applicant not getting in, this is about the argument you made that someone with a top score and GPA can just walk into Harvard even if they are total ******s and have no ECs. I’m glad that you have come around and agreed with us now though.</p>
<p>Also, you don’t have to be a genius to get a top MCAT score and GPA. There are a surprising number of people who spend all of their time studying in order to maintain their academic standard and don’t have time to do anything else. These are the ones that get axed from the top schools. In fact 50 or so kids that score 39+ out of that 500 don’t even get into medical school, let alone a top school (which in itself is relative to your own definition of top).</p>
<p>Your original argument was that a high scorer could waltz into HMS solely based on the fact he was a “genius.” That is not true. And you have changed your argument to the fact that most high scorers can at least feign “doctorly characteristics” which only supports our argument that you must demonstrate these characteristics in order to get into med school. Scores alone won’t get you in anywhere.</p>
<p>^ “scores alone won’t get you in anywhere”</p>
<p>i stand by my argument. My claim was that the 45 MCAT 4.0 kid would be easily accepted at a top school (lets just replace HMS with “top med school”). Is this really so far fetched?</p>
<p>A quick scan of MSAR shows just exactly how few 45 MCAT scores there are in a year. Of those people, i’d claim 99.99% get into a med school by eyeballing the curves. While they may not be in the best med school because of financial circumstances, they certain are at a medical school. Obviously, scores alone can get u somewhere.</p>
<p>Can someone please cite an instance when a 45 MCAT 4.0 GPA person was rejected from a medical school?</p>
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<p>Yeah, it’s far-fetched to think 45 MCAT and 4.0 GPA alone will get you into medical school. With virtually impossible numbers like that, you better have an incredible resume and stellar people skills. Otherwise, you’ll come across as a let-down - “You mean you can take tests really well, but you can’t carry on a conversation and have no life outside of school? Well, I’ve got 100 other folks who take tests nearly as well as you and don’t come across as a limp fish. Next!”</p>
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<p>No, but I also don’t know anyone with a 45 MCAT and a 4.0 GPA.</p>
<p>Without listing particulars, I can confirm that we reject applicants with very strong GPA and MCAT scores for many reasons that suggest they do not have the appropriate temperament to be a physician. Lack of maturity and narrow life experience-with implied inability to relate appropriately with future patients is an oft stated reason for rejecting these “top” applicants. There is renewed emphasis in many top med school admission committees on the importance of the non-academic portions of the application.</p>
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<p>I’m not sure how you’re doing your math but there’s usually 0 45 MCAT scorers applying each year so it’s impossible to say whether or not they’ll be accepted. But, there are plenty of 40+ scorers (99th percentile). Most of them get into some med school but usually not more than half of the med schools they apply to. I applied with a MCAT score in the 98th percentile and I only got into 1/5 of the med schools I applied to (and I would call that a success).</p>
<p>Don’t you find it odd that every single person who has actually been through the admissions process disagrees with you? The only person who has semi-agreed with you is the parent of a kid who hasn’t even taken the MCAT.</p>
<p>There hasn’t been a 45 in several years from what I hear. The curve is probably just an extrapolation or error. Since there are no known 4.0/45s here is an applicant with a 43 and 3.97. </p>
<p>B.S. in Chemistry and Physics, M.S. in Biochemistry.
Shadowed several doctors during Undergraduates degree.
Published 6 papers, 4 as first author.
Volenteered in AIDS camp in India & Uganda for 6 months.
Worked as a Paramedic during Undergraduates.
Was in several Honor societies and clubs.
Summa Cum Laude in Biochemistry from Columbia University. </p>
<p>Rejected at Harvard. (gasp). 4856 is their user id at mdapplicants.com</p>
<p>I just pulled that one out of a hat, I’m sure all or almost all of the applicants listed there were rejected at least one school. So there, I showed you that you can be rejected from Harvard (or "a medical school’) with great stats AND great ECs even. I will agree that I think that some school would bite if you had a 4.0/45, my assertion this entire time has been that it wouldn’t be Harvard.</p>
<p>ParAlum, thank you for your support, but I doubt that even your support (an ADMISSIONS COMMITTEE member I believe at some point) is unlikely to make this poster understand. Four medical students and an adcom member are telling you that you are dead wrong my jason. I too live in NY, would you like me to invite you to my medical school and sit you down with the Dean of Admissions so that you can get it straight that we are telling you the truth. A great score with no ECs or personality is not going to get you into a top school. It is possible that it will get you into some school, but seeing as some top scorers don’t get in apparently even that isn’t enough some times. Are you even in college yet btw, why do you have a MSAR already? Older sibling?</p>
<p>^Why would candidate like that be rejected at Harvard? Mt D. has no plans for Harvard, but if she gets close to 35 she is thinking of applying to some competitive Med. Schools, otherwise, she will stay at her program. She has been encouraged by her pre-med advisor who reviewed all her stats and application (including essay) to apply to very Elite Medical School. D. has no plans to do so, but would love to have a chance at some schools on her list, although has piece of mind knowing that she needs only 27 on MCAT to have a spot at Medical School in her program. She does not have all those AIDs related and authoring Research activities, but she is very involved and advisor has been very impressed to the point of asking how she finds time for her very demanding schedule. I would appreciate any advice. D’s MCAT is scheduled fo May 22.</p>
<p>Because Harvard gets 70 applications for every spot and probably at least 5 of those applications are of that quality. I don’t mean that 5 out of every 70 applicants have a 43 MCAT. But, after you have a 36 or so on the MCAT, your score is “good enough.” Keep in mind, unlike with gem stones and baseball cards, med schools don’t accept applicants because they’re rare. A 43 or 45 MCAT is rare. But they don’t necessarily make good doctors. Hence, beyond a 3.8 GPA and a 36 MCAT, you really don’t get much extra consideration from your academics.</p>
<p>So, it becomes very subjective as to who they decide to interview or accept. I’m sure the applicant that mmcdowe posted got into at least one top med school. It’s just hard to predict which SPECIFIC med school you’ll get into. There are far too many good applicants for you to get into every med school you apply. Hence, I said earlier that even the very best applicants (outside of URM’s) won’t get into more than 1/2 of the med schools they apply to.</p>
<p>^Boy, it makes even more sense to be in combined program.</p>
<p>Yes, that applicant did get into a number of great schools. Also, it is possible that said applicant utterly failed during the interview. Who knows?</p>