<p>mstee, I agree with you, I have seen appalling behavior from people at zoos, shouting, throwing things, in one area of the zoo here they have large signs around one particular exhibit to please be quiet, the animals in that area are shy and get nervous with loud sounds, does anyboby pay attention, nope. It was hard to keep my kids quiet and respectfull with so many others being so noisey. I know most zoos are short on funding, but it would really be a good idea to have more employees around to moniter behavior and answer questions, etc.</p>
<p>If an animal has a nervous nature and requires quiet and given the known attendees of zoos (lots of kids - many rambunctious), then if the zoo can’t provide an enclosure that insulates the animal from the disturbance I don’t think the zoo should have the animal in the first place.</p>
<p>Mstee, natural selection or Darwinism gets to decide. However, I said extinct or some other method.</p>
<p>Where are all the polar bears going to be in a few years?</p>
<p>In little rock gardens that are hosed down and a tiny swimming pool to amuse others.</p>
<p>Polar bears are endangered because of harm that man has inflicted upon their environment- how is that natural selection?</p>
<p>Of course it is not natural selection, but it is an issue of a magnificent animal becoming extinct.</p>
<p>Are we to put thousands and thousands of them in zoos on display and in confinement to be miserable?</p>
<p>Until someone interviews zoo animals and brings to light how sad they all are, I’m not buying that the supposed misery of zoo animals outweighs letting numerous species disappear for all time.</p>
<p>No interview necessary. A trained observer of animals or human emotions will easily observe it.</p>
<p>How is your cage?</p>
<p>we cannot observe others and assume we know what they are feeling.
FOr instance- we may think that quadriplegics would rather be dead than to live in that state- but in most cases we would be wrong.</p>
<p>Predicting what another feels is something we can’t do. We can’t even predict how we would feel, how can we predict what a completely different life form feels?
<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/07/books/review/07stossell.html?_r=2&pagewanted=1&emc=eta1&oref=slogin[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/07/books/review/07stossell.html?_r=2&pagewanted=1&emc=eta1&oref=slogin</a>
</p>
<p>Kitty, having worked with quadriplegics for two years, I can assure you that they want to be dead. Don’t think the man who played Superman was your typical quad, though his plight was pretty awful despite his money. You have no idea of the horror of a quad’s life - the extent varies depending on the level of the spinal chord injury.</p>
<p>I have worked in a facility that was like a nursing home except for it was designed for young people, many either had mobility problems and couldn’t be cared for at home, including quadriplegics, often as result of drugs or accidents, some had their function limited because of disease.</p>
<p>Perhaps the place you worked was bleaker, but the people I worked with still received enjoyment from their life</p>
<p>No Kitty, I worked with young adult quadriplegics who went to college, worked, and lived independently in apartments.
What I did was teach them skills to be able to do so, and manage their medications and supervise their aids and medical care. Many became close friends. Some had special vehicles that enabled them to drive. They still wanted to die.
I knew them on a very intimate, personal level. They didn’t announce to the world they wanted to die, but they did.</p>
<p>I saw the polar bears in San Diego. They did not look sad to me. They have a much nicer (and larger) habitat there though, I imagine, than they do in some other zoos. Not the same kind of life as in the wild, but it didn’t seem so bad. </p>
<p>My daughter saw a polar bear at the Berlin zoo. An orphan that had been cared for by a trainer, and it was being weaned from the trainer. It was very unhappy and was crying (making a heartbreaking noise) for the trainer – at least that was what appeared to be going on. </p>
<p>What is my point? The bears seem to be more adaptable to a different kind of environment than I would have previously thought. At least one seems to have gotten awfully fond of its human trainer. </p>
<p>If thought and care are put into designing a zoo environment, these animals can do okay. It seems better than the fate that others of their species in the wild are facing due to the melting ice cap.</p>
<p>violinist: I, and several of my friends, are struggling with MS and other debilitating afflictions. I can tell you from the bottom of my heart that not a day goes by that some of us think life would be easier for us and our famililies if we weren’t struggling, but those times pass when we remember how much we ENJOY seeing the accomplishments of our loved ones and the every day joys of being here.
Your “young adults” may not have been able to see the future that they could have created and therefore could not see the future. Also, physical therapy such as you described is very tiring and seems futile most of the time and may have affected their responses. (I clearly remember having to run, learn to do things differently, etc and thinking ‘I’d rather be dead’) My kids and others around me made the difference.
To personify the animals in a zoo and compare them to quadriplegics is…narrow-minded, to say the least.
EK: I grew up on a farm but took my girls from G’parents house on QA to WPZ every trip to Seattle. Loved WPZ and the Gorillas. E Wash farm was not the same. Just sheep, goats, horses, chickens, etc.
mstee: DDs cat is whining constantly since she’s gone back to school. Animals bond to their people and that’s why we love them!!</p>
<p>We get involved with what we care about
'Its hard to care about something you don’t know about or value.
Zoos can be a vehicle for involvement & change
[The</a> San Diego Zoo’s Conservation and Research for Endangered Species (CRES)](<a href=“http://cres.sandiegozoo.org/index.html]The”>http://cres.sandiegozoo.org/index.html)
[Endangered</a> Species Science - National Zoo| FONZ](<a href=“http://nationalzoo.si.edu/ConservationAndScience/EndangeredSpecies/]Endangered”>http://nationalzoo.si.edu/ConservationAndScience/EndangeredSpecies/)
[Seattle</a> | Woodland Park Zoo: An experience all creatures can enjoy | NWsource](<a href=“http://www.nwsource.com/travel/washington/puget-sound/seattle/woodland-park-zoo-experience-all-creatures-can-enjoy]Seattle”>http://www.nwsource.com/travel/washington/puget-sound/seattle/woodland-park-zoo-experience-all-creatures-can-enjoy)</p>
<p>I am a volunter at a small zoo. I lead tours for school children, many of whom have never seen animals other than household pets. I consider myself an animal lover, and see how the keepers at our small zoo care for the animals. Would it be nice if there were no animals in captivity? Perhaps…but to me, it is more valuable to have examples of these species to help educate and excite children and adults about the natural world.</p>
<p>First, most animals in U.S zoos were born in captivity and could never survive in the wild. I agree that the behavior of animals in captivity is different from that of those in the wild, but keepers do what they can to offer stimulation in the enclosures. They even chart what activities are offered, so that the animals get exposed to new activities. Examples of these enrichments are puzzle boxes with food in them, seasonal foods like pumpkins for monkeys to play with and eat, as well as newspapers to tear and thorw, and wooden toys.</p>
<p>Another thing about zoo animals is that many of the ones we diesplay have physical handicaps which would never allow them to live in the wild. We have one eyed birds of prey, a three legged antelope and very ancient monkeys. Because of the quality of care proivded in a zoo, the animals do live a much longer life than their wild relatives. By keeping them, it allows discussions with the kids i.e. why the bald eagle has one wing…hiunters shot her = bad, but the fact that she lives at our zoo allows kids to see a bald eagle in real life.</p>
<p>The third reason I believe that zoos should exist has been mentioned…and that is the part they play in species survival and biodiversity. Accredited zoos maintain databases which keep track of genetic info for all their animals. There are no or very few unplanned pregnancies in a zoo, and the offspring of many endangered animals have been rereleased into the wild. We are very excited that we will be part of a breeding program for Gold Lion Tamarins, an endangered speices of monkey. If we have a successful pairing, the offspring will be rerelased into the wild to help build numbers there. We have already had success with a type of Lemur, and our zoo bred and born animal was rereleased into the wilds of Madagascar where she had young with a wild born mate.</p>
<p>Do we have unkind vistors who tease and harrass the animals? Yes, and we try to stop them through a zoo monitor program. It doesn’t always work. Are there bad zoos out there? Absolutely, but the public can avoid them by going to ones that are accredited by the AZA (American Zookeepers Association). Another thing you can do if you care about the animals at your local zoo is to volunteer your time. There are many things you can do, from assisting keepers with mundane chores like sweeping to becoming a docent, and educating the public about animals and the thing that endanger them. It si tryuly exciting to see a kid who is terrified of snakes reach out a trembling hand to touch a snake and see what it feels like.</p>
<p>End of my sermon!</p>
<p>Oh, and I am really conflicted about elephants in zoos. I grew up near the SF Zoo, and remember seeing the elephants there rocking back and forth. My zoo does not have elephants, we are too small to give them a proper place to live. But, we do have some that come in on the weekends to give rides, and they are very popular with our guests. The are very intellegent animals and I have seen them in the wild, doing exactly as they please.</p>
<p>“Also, physical therapy such as you described is very tiring and seems futile most of the time and may have affected their responses.”</p>
<p>“To personify the animals in a zoo and compare them to quadriplegics is…narrow-minded, to say the least.”</p>
<p>This is not what was said and done by violinists. Another poster introduced the subject of quadriplegia, to which she responded. Violinists never mentioned physical therapy. </p>
<p>However, I can understand your discomfort and upset, and offer sincere apologies.</p>
<p>Update today: the boys in the San Francisco Zoo incident were intoxicated and had been taunting the tiger, according to the police investigation, and documents filed in court on Thursday.</p>
<p>[Police:</a> Tiger attack victim was drinking, admitted taunting - CNN.com](<a href=“http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/01/18/tiger.attack.ap/index.html]Police:”>http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/01/18/tiger.attack.ap/index.html)</p>
<p>violinist- I hope you are not an adult- I hope that you are an immature teen that’s passion got the best of them…</p>
<p>really just about the most disgraceful thing I have heard all day. I doubt you ever worked with anyone that was a quadriplegic because if you did-you would not have that attitude.</p>
<p>and let me say socraticgf - I’m guessing you are violinst because there is no justification of what violinst said. </p>
<p>whew…</p>
<p>Yes, I am an adult with multiple degrees, licenses and experiences that you apparently do not have.
Everything I write and say I believe is true. They are my experiences and viewpoints. If yours are different, I won’t call you a child. </p>
<p>As my work with physically challenged people was very altruistic, creative, challenging, and required significant skill, I have no need to defend myself.</p>
<p>In addition, my kids are graduates or near graduates of the best colleges, I didn’t read college confidential before their admissions, I learn from books primarily. </p>
<p>I am here on occasion as a service, to share my knowledge and experience, which is significant. It is one of my volunteer activities and ways I help mankind.</p>