<p>Most people on here won’t say this, but where you went to Higschool really does matter. If you can get a 3.5 GPA and only get a 21 ACT, then your highschool is probably not very hard. Yes, maybe she’s just not good at tests, etc. I don’t care- that anecdotes do not make up the majority of a statistic, and test scores are a good cross-school metric. If you did very well WITH HARD CLASSES, in a HARD highschool, then yes, you can expect to do well. I personally found Northwestern easier than my highschool was, but two of my close friends who had nearly the same course load freshman year. I found it easy- they struggled. NU was their reach, it was my low target. So in short: there’s no way to know. </p>
<p>Have you taken many AP’s? Is your HS known for college prep and rigor? Are your grades and test scores in NYU et al.'s top 25% their bottom 25%? I think most people are best served going to a slightly worse school than the best they get in to and being one of the smartest people there. There’s always enough people of equal or great ability to challenge you if you find them, and you won’t struggle and will have the attention of teachers.</p>
Perhaps, although my (old) experience has been 70% homework level, 20% challenging textbook problems, and 10% creative problems. I looked at my son’s test and it appeared more 50% trivial questions, 20% easy homework, and 30% typical homework.</p>
<p>Exactly. People need to stop propagating that high GPA’s will lead to success in life, such as becoming a fighter jet pilot or becoming a multimillionaire. You might become assistant to the regional manager but that is about it.</p>
<p>But you’ve got it all wrong. A 60% doesn’t mean a student didn’t learn. A 60 is meaningless without context. It sounds like you’re suggesting we deflate grades by jacking up the average to a 75% and having that be a BC or C, so that the average GPA is a 2.0-2.5. </p>
<p>Professors would have to make exams ridiculously easy to get an average student scoring some arbitrary percentage, and it’s completely unnecessary. Easy exams imply easy classes, because there’s no incentives for a student to learn advanced material that a professor can’t afford to test his/her class on. </p>
<p>We need a curve. It just needs to be a real curve, so that the average in the class is a C, not a B like it is nowadays. Then you give the professor freedom to teach material as deeply as he/she wants. Ultimately, the grades will be curved appropriately so no one can complain. It’ll also prevent the floaters that simply take all easy classes. If all lectures get curved to a 2.0, then you might as well learn something, right? </p>
<p>Not to mention the benefits this will have for top students (mediocre students won’t be affected, a 2.0 will be the new 3.0). Top grades will truly be earned and indicative of talent, smarts, and work ethic–you won’t have a cluster of students earning 3.5-4.0. Employers will know that a strong GPA student learns fast and thinks deeply.</p>
<p>Like Prothero said, academic success doesn’t mean life success. So, whether employers will let GPA affect their job placements is up to them, but having a real curve can only provide more information about students by weeding out the best.</p>
<p>After you get your first job, your GPA no longer matters. GPA is really only good for your first march into the workforce, after that - it becomes increasingly irrelevant.</p>
<p>Of course, you still need a decent GPA to get a good internship and make yourself competitive for post-grad work, if you decide too, but for most careers - GPA relevance ends with your first job.</p>
<p>Before I get blasted, I’m fully aware that many programs like medicine, law or engineering put greater weight on GPA. I’m talking in generalities.</p>
<p>College difficulty is all relative to how difficult your high school is. I had a 3.38 gpa in high school and now I have a much higher gpa with a tough schedule in college.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t necessarily say that after your first job, your GPA becomes completely irrelevant. I mean it’s not of vital importance, but it’s a nice little side note to add to your educational background. For instance, if you graduated summa cum laude, wouldn’t you list that? In general, it just leaves a slightly more favorable impression.</p>
<p>Back to the OPs question: We can’t entirely predict how tough you’ll find your targeted schools, but the poster who said to compare your stats with the mid and upper percentiles of students at each school was right on. Also take a look at naviance, if your school has it, and see how many students get into those schools and where you fall in terms of rank compared to those students. Then talk to the former kids from your school who’ve attended.</p>
<p>You didn’t mention your SAT/ACT score. Is your score similar to your sister’s and is that perhaps what has your parents worried?
For some schools, eg. NYU, the 21 your sister’s score would be way below the admit range, although it is entirely possible to not be a good ACT taker and still be a good student. The score in and of itself does not define your capability to do the work, but it <em>can</em> indicate grade inflation or a lack of curricular rigor at your school. </p>
<p>Eg. at UMich average ACT is 30 at midrange, 32 and up in top 25 percentile. I suspect NYU would be similar. On a very rare occasion, UMich might admit a student with a 21 if all other evidence strongly supported achievement, but truthfully, a student performing at an ACT of 21 (who’s test was not skewed by some kind of learning disability) might find the material, and most particularly, the SPEED OF DELIVERY of the material, daunting at that particular school.</p>
<p>So, like every college applicant, you should apply to a set of “reaches” where you would benefit from the quality of the student pool; a set of “matches” where you’d fit right in with your GPA/ACT, and some safeties, and then elect to attend the one that FEELS like a FIT, parents’ concern notwithstanding. Make your parents a deal: as long as you can maintain a 3.0 (eg. if you go to a tough school) and as long as you’re learning, ask them to let you be ;)</p>
<p>If you are determined to succeed, you WILL. It’s that simple.
Good luck to you!</p>
<h2>I wouldn’t necessarily say that after your first job, your GPA becomes completely irrelevant. I mean it’s not of vital importance, but it’s a nice little side note to add to your educational background. For instance, if you graduated summa cum laude, wouldn’t you list that? In general, it just leaves a slightly more favorable impression. ~ CRS1909</h2>
<p>Sure, of course list, just don’t expect any to get real impressed.</p>
<p>Employers care about work performance and skills. Not GPA’s from 5, 10, 15 years ago.</p>
<p>Yeah…I know…Hence why I said that it’d leave “a slightly more favorable impression.” If you’re interviewing for a competitive job, a slightly more favorable impression could end up being the difference between receiving an offer and not receiving one.</p>
<p>to kmccrindle, my ACT is a 30 (I plan to retake) and my GPA is a 4.1 weighted. They know that I do well in school, but they still think that I am going to be disappointed if I receive a C or something in a class. I think that they may also be concerned because I am planning to go into pre-med, which I know is rigorous. Do my goals (of studying pre-med at my dream schools) still sound unreasonable?</p>
<p>However, take a look at the graduation rates of the top colleges. 95%+ is normal. If you struggle at one of these schools, help is available. Nobody is admitted to one of these colleges unless the college has determined that (s)he can succeed. </p>
<p>Take a look at the graduation rate at the college your sister attended. Take a look at the graduation rate for the nursing program. I’d hazard a guess it’s not 95%+. The program probably is built on the assumption that a large percentage of students won’t make it. Nobody really cares much about the students who are weeded out. </p>
<p>The situation is just very, very different at colleges that don’t aim to weed people out. If you do poorly on an exam, the odds are high that the professor is going to email you and suggest tutoring or something else to help you. </p>
<p>Plus, as important as gpa is to med school admissions, the MCAT score is also important. Now, please don’t flame me because I DO know that some regional Us do a great job preparing their grads for the MCAT. That isn’t true of all of them though. One of my young neighbors was pre-med at a regional u. He had a very high gpa. He got a below average MCAT score. He took a year off and worked part time and studied. He retook the MCAT. His score still wasn’t high enough to get into med school. </p>
<p>Now, if you go to one of your reaches, you may not end up with as high a gpa. However, the tougher course work may mean a higher MCAT score. </p>
<p>And when some regional u claims a 90% rate for med school admission, ask if everyone who wants to apply is permitted to do so. Lots of the lower tier schools screen out applicants–they won’t “endorse” the application of anyone with a low gpa. And it fhe u won’t “endorse” you that means profs won’t write letters of rec. </p>
<p>Bottom line–if you really want to go to med school, don’t go to a regional school assuming that the higher gpa will get you into med school. It may be offset by a lower MCAT score. Find out (a)whether there are any restrictions on who can apply to med school , (b) the acceptance rate, and (c) the median and 25/75% for MCAT scores.</p>
Sounds like I have been misunderstood. The class grades mentioned were an average raw score of 60 - 65, inflated to a 75 - 80 final transcript score. The point I want to emphasize is that students unable to solve homework level questions from a standard textbook passed the class once inflation kicked in.</p>
<p>I don’t see the need for inflation at all, if classes follow a general recipe of a ‘C’ for competency in average difficulty textbook problem sets, ‘B’ for ability to solve the more difficult textbook problem sets, and a rare ‘A’ for students who can think past the textbook material. The notion that a curve is needed to normalize professor variation ignores student body variation, and more importantly engenders inflation.</p>
Medical school is much more difficult to get into than than to get through. The problem is your competition. The only reason I suggest caution in choosing pre-med at ‘dream’ schools is if you do not make the cut, you or your parents will be saddled with a very large bill, and high odds of difficulty paying it off. OTOH, if your parents have the cash to burn then this is an easier choice.</p>
<p>Just a guess – the median med school matriculant had a HS GPA of 4.3+ and an ACT of 33+ or SAT of 2100+. At least for those med schools that do not put their students at a disadvantage in landing residency spots.</p>
<p>While your parents’ concern may be valid because of their prior experience, you are not your sister. I know plenty of sibbling sets who are as opposite as night and day, especially in academics. Also, as many people have already stated, nursing is a tough major especially in its first year. The requirements can sometimes be too much for new college students to handle and the major in its entirety can be extremely intellectually straining for others.</p>
<p>Nobody can truly gauge your situation but you. Look at your GPA and SAT and realistically think about what you know you can do. Another aspect to consider is that while some students accepted to top universities have to transfer or drop out because of academic rigors, admissions committees (at top universities) do an overall accurate job of choosing an incoming class filled with capable and intelligent students that will succeed at their schools. With the competitiveness of their applicant pools, if you’re chosen (even those who later transfer or drop out) there is a reason why. They look for aptitude and promise, and while a small number of students fall short of success, most others thrive and achieve.</p>
<p>On a somewhat related side note: </p>
<p>If you’ve struggled in the hard sciences, don’t be an engineering major. If you’re more gifted in humanities consider majoring in them.</p>
<p>While I am by no means categorizing your sister with this group, there are many people who encourage what are considered “practical” majors on everybody. They make the age old argument of easy employability if you are a nurse/teacher/etc. Some students, even fellow classmates of mine, major in these fields with the hope of easier employement and they are so absolutely miserable. Not everyone should be a teacher or a nurse!</p>
<p>Parental presures should not impede an opportunity like attending your dream schools. You know you, if you don’t think the academic rigor will be something manageable then look for schools within your range, but if you know you can do the work, dream big.</p>
<p>I’ll answer your question WB1, but frankly I cannot imagine what the data is good for.</p>
<p>me:
IQ 132
HS GPA 2.7
SAT 1450/1600 (normalized to current test)</p>
<p>son:
IQ ~ 140
HS GPA 4.6ish
SAT 1560/1600</p>
<p>Son’s SAT tutor (me) was inferior to the student
I remind my whippersnappers that I spent a couple hours preparing for the SAT, while they were home tutored over a summer when they kid me too much :)</p>
<p>^^ I don’t remember. I went to a 6 year professional program where grades were sought by students for prestige, but they did not really matter so long as the course was passed. I went to class sporadically and did not take lecture notes or complete homework, but I read extensively, worked a lot, and slept in-between. Overall I ranked about the 70th percentile in my class, and usually rank 80 - 90th percentile in US qualifying/recert examinations. Pre-professional prep school (for lack of a better description) was finished with a 4.0. That was pretty much required in order to progress. These school descriptors may sound unusual to you because they are European in design. I took the SAT back in the day when I thought I would study in the US.</p>
<p>Honestly, my study habits are downright awful, and I have insisted that my kids not imitate me. I am fortunate that I picked a field that in topics I am interested I apply myself to the best of my ability.</p>
