<p>“Rather than being being on the offensive, the data points would argue that conservative Christians are fighting a defensive and losing battle.”</p>
<p>Cool! ;)</p>
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And here I had it at “pick 'em”. Glad to hear it, ff.</p>
<p>It’s not just domestic policies, the Bush administration’s desire to march through the middle-east to “spread democracy” is nothing less than the modern day Crusades.</p>
<p>Onward Christian soldiers…</p>
<p>"Cool! "</p>
<p>“Glad to hear it, ff.”</p>
<p>That’s what great about a democracy - it’s OK to be in favor of a more secular country. However, to look at the events and conclude that we are on the verge of of a theocracy is paranoic nonsense with a bit of anti-Christian prejudice thrown in.</p>
<p>… and Bullwinkle, all I can say to your post is, well … bull!</p>
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<p>Yes. As Hedges so wisely says: “Tolerance is a virtue, but tolerance along with passivity is a vice.”</p>
<p>Onward, Christian soldiers, marching as to war,
with the cross of Jesus going on before.
Christ, the royal Master, leads against the foe;
forward into battle see his banners go! </p>
<pre><code>Onward, Christian soldiers, marching as to war,
with the cross of Jesus going on before.
At the sign of triumph Satan's host doth flee;
on then, Christian soldiers, on to victory!
Hell’s foundations quiver at the shout of praise;
brothers, lift your voices, loud your anthems raise.
Like a mighty army moves the church of God;
brothers, we are treading where the saints have trod.
We are not divided, all one body we,
one in hope and doctrine, one in charity.
Crowns and thrones may perish, kingdoms rise and wane,
but the church of Jesus constant will remain.
Gates of hell can never gainst that church prevail;
we have Christ’s own promise, and that cannot fail.
Onward then, ye people, join our happy throng,
blend with ours your voices in the triumph song.
Glory, laud, and honor unto Christ the King,
this through countless ages men and angels sing.
Onward, Christian soldiers, marching as to war,
with the cross of Jesus going on before…
</code></pre>
<p>BULLwinkle - That hymn is not literal…it’s a metaphor. The ‘foe’ being Satan. Don’t pervert it into something it’s not.</p>
<p>ldmom, I’m sorry but that hymn has been used at every Klan Rally ever held and is the staple of American Nazi sing-a-longs. It’s been perverted but not by us. 
Just google it and the name of a American White Supremacist organization . You’ll see what I mean. </p>
<p>I used "Onward Christian Soldiers " + Ku Klux Klan.</p>
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<p>It may be paranoid to think they could actually succeed, but it is realistic to assert that this is indeed what they are TRYING to do. </p>
<p>Just read the info on the link posted by the OP. They admit it. They admit what their goals are. And you say we’re paranoid in being concerned? These people are no better than the radical Islamic terrorists. Radical, intolerant, and violent. That’s what they have in common.</p>
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<p>I couldn’t agree more, and I’m not a Christian.</p>
<p>“These people are no better than the radical Islamic terrorists. Radical, intolerant, and violent.”</p>
<p>Oh for Pete’s sake, you can’t be serious. I suppose you have to equate Fundamentalist American Christianity to Islamic terrorism to justify your paranoia, but try—just TRY for one freaking minute, to be HALF-WAY objective and intellectually honest. </p>
<p>Violent? Aside from a handful of abortion clinic bombings, and abortion doctor murders carried out by lone sick individuals over the past quarter century, what widespread sectarian—nay, even sporatic violence promulgated by American Christian Fundamentalists can you document? Now really, be honest! </p>
<p>I’m waiting…</p>
<p>I don’t happen to believe or agree with well over three quarters of what these groups preach, but an objective analysis of the facts negates the need for this hyperbolic hand-wringing. True, they are often obnoxiously self-righteous. True, they fear any social change that contradicts their ideas of what America “has always stood for”. They wish to reverse the direction of what they see to be a “dangerous” trend in American morality. But they ARE LOSING THE BATTLE—and decisively so! How on earth can you justify being AFRAID of the infintestimally small number of graduates (not to mention, the even smaller number of Congressional pages—an influential, and powerful political appointment, if ever their was one :rolleyes:) from little Patrick Henry College? Come on, think about it… And the Fundies are nowhere near the majority. Neither do they march in lock-step. You take quotes from a couple of nut jobs speaking from the farthest outposts of the religious right, and hold them aloft as PROOF that the majority of Americans need to be “very concerned” about the upsurpation of their civil rights by “The Religious Right”, and expect to be taken seriously as “thinking individuals”? </p>
<p>Well, sorry. I must call you on that. It doesn’t hold water. I doubt very seriously that many of you would agree with the so-called “Leaders” and “spokespersons” within the African American academic and social communities, who insist that "there’s a conspiracy afoot to “turn back the clock on civil rights for African Americans”, based on voter referendums on Affirmative Action, and the prevelence of Neo-Nazi para-military camps in the foothills of Idaho and Montana. But honestly, what’s the difference? People are elevating the actions of a tiny minority (and in many cases, it’s more rhetoric than action) and sounding the alarm, as if political and social chaos is immenent. </p>
<p>Just because you hate the group, and all that it stands for, does not mean that hysteria is justified.</p>
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<p>That’s not what I said. I said it may be paranoia for people to be concerned about them, but that turning the US into a theocracy IS their intention. That doesn’t mean I think they can pull it off; just that it’s what they want.</p>
<p>By ‘they’ I mean the extreme fundamentalists, the most extreme of which are exemplified by the given examples. However, even the less extreme do have that agenda, or at least many of them do. I’ve been to a number of their churches - huge, mainstream born-again churches, during the 2000 election and I heard them preaching politics in those churches. I heard them say that Christians need to take back this country and make the US a Christian country. I’ve heard individual Christians tell me that all the Iraqis should just be killed because they’re all going to ‘hell’ anyway. And it wasn’t just an isolated case. I’ve heard several of them express some variation of that sentiment. This is on the road to justifying violence. It is true that only a few on the fringe are actually violent thus far, at least directly. But many do condone violence indirectly in the form of war. And the same sort of elitist, intolerant thinking that the radicals have. Not to as intense a degree, no doubt, but if you take that same way of thinking and intensify it, that is the direction it may lead. I think it would be naive to think it couldn’t happen here.</p>
<p>No, I don’t think there is cause for hysteria, but there IS cause for concern.</p>
<p>I don’t hate the people in the group, but I find such intolerant and bigoted thinking to be quite dangerous and yes, cause for concern. Hysteria? No. Concern? Yes.</p>
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Oklahoma City ring any bells?</p>
<p>And the topic is Christian Fascists , not Fundamentalists. I’m assuming they are not the same.</p>
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WHICH time??? ;)</p>
<p>"Violent? Aside from a handful of abortion clinic bombings, and abortion doctor murders carried out by lone sick individuals over the past quarter century, what widespread sectarian—nay, even sporatic violence promulgated by American Christian Fundamentalists can you document? Now really, be honest!</p>
<p>I’m waiting…"</p>
<p>does the ‘crusade’ for Iraq count? They were the most vocal advocates for the war.</p>
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<p>Indeed, be afraid, be very afraid.</p>
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<p><a href=“http://www.salon.com/books/review/1999/07/19/simonelli/print.html[/url]”>www.salon.com/books/review/1999/07/19/simonelli/print.html</a></p>
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<p>I’d say quite a lot more than a bit.</p>
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I am afraid that would be the Neo-cons that advocated for the war and there were largely identified with a different religious persuasion; if we are to involve religion at all—I, however, would think that to be a bit ridiculous.</p>
<p>From the Western point of view, this is a secular war involving terrorism and oil --in either order.</p>
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This is a very specious argument. Timothy McVeigh did not do his bombing in the name of religion and in fact does not even claim to be a devout Christian:</p>
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<p>hh, how many Ryder trucks do you think it takes to commit a violent act? Just how many active Al Quaeda operatives do you think existed ten years ago? It doesn’t take a huge number of folks to wreak major havoc. And remember, it’s not just the bombers, it’s those that support them . How long did Mr. Rudolf live in the woods avoiding capture? Think he had any help? </p>
<p>Domestic right-wing/fascist terrorists DO scare me. Whether they scare (edit:the three of) you is no concern of mine. It seems we both (edit:all) doubt that they’ll be shooting at you. LOL.</p>
<p>Oh, please ff. Be honest. He was at a religious nut-job camp just weeks before the bombing.</p>
<p>I don’t care about his degree of devoutness as I don’t believe it is their devout Christianity that drives any of these killing wack-jobs. (Just as I don’t believe devout-ness was required for the Crusades) That’s just the cross they bear to appeal to the masses. (;)So to speak.)</p>