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<p>This thread isn’t about “smart kids.” This thread is about the “smartest kids.”</p>
<p>depends on how you define smart…book smart? life smart?
also, if you take the average kid at a top 20 school, that person will be ‘smarter’ than the average kid at another top 50. (such as pennstate, as you mentioned)</p>
<p>Yes and no. Of course there are brilliant people at Yale and at Podunk U. “Smartness” has a multitude of definitions and indicators. The ivies like to grab those with the statistical indicators of “smartness.” CC tends to stereotype Ivy students as either “ultra-brilliant” or “stats inflators.” In other words, don’t believe every stereotype you hear!</p>
<p>EDIT: The “smartest” students go wherever the heck they want. Those are the people who can succeed wherever they go (and many of them know it). </p>
<p>Why are you worried about this, anyway?</p>
<p>Look, what people forget is that the Ivies have a lot to offer. There are so many resources and amazing professors, and a wonderful student body and cultural environment. There are more to Ivies than just prestige. Intelligent people apply because they know they will have the environment necessary to best advance their academic passions. However, it is hard to get accepted and some people of high intelligence don’t feel that it’s worth going through the resume-busting to get in. College is expensive, and there are a fair share of people at Ivies who are there for the wrong reason (prestige-whores). However, if you’re true to yourself and are truly intelligent, you will realize that the school doesn’t make the man. Successful people will still be successful. It’s a matter of how much you can afford, how much effort makes it worthwhile, and where your interests and goals lie. That’s all it comes down to.</p>
<p>There are Ivy-caliber students at hundreds of colleges; there’s just not a whole entering class full of them elsewhere ;)</p>
<p>Yea, you people need to stop with this anti-ivy league attitude. The Ivy League schools, with their boatloads of funding, are able to give an educational experience and quality of teaching and life that few other schools can afford. I know that I’d be happier going to any ivy league school rather than my local public university simply because of the greater quality of life (due to funding) that exists on ivies.</p>
<p>And I’m sure many of the ‘smartest’ kids are attracted by the same. There is a significant portion of the smartest (academically) people on ivy league campus’s, but that doesnt mean that someone going to a different place is not one of the smartest either. Ivies simply have a higher concentration because of their natural attraction</p>
<p>Where you go is a choice. The point remains there are exceptional students everywhere. This is not an anti-ivy attitude. Get over it.</p>
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<p>Don’t make statements out of nothing if you can’t back it up. While there are probably applicants to ivy schools that did do this, there are plenty who do not.
And there are students who do this in there applications to non-ivy schools, so don’t even try to use this generalization as proof that ivy’s are not great schools filled with smart kids.</p>
<p>(For the record, I didn’t apply ivy and have no desire to.)</p>
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<p>I think you should get over the fact that ivy’s are amazing.</p>
<p>you can’t limit the ivies as the only good schools. look at the top 15 LAC’s, i would prefer to go to ANY of those schools over HYP
yes the ivies are obviously good schools, no one is denying that. but to say that the highest caliber education is only available there would be false IMO</p>
<p>I think that the original poster meant to say that not all of the best students go to the Ivies.</p>
<p>Point is…because grades are not all that great at measuring academic ability and the Ivies value really high grades, they don’t necessarily get (all of) the smartest students. Many of the smartest students are eccentric and don’t value those things. Much madness is divinest sense, you know.</p>
<p>I can attest to that. I hate school, so my grades suck, but anyone in school will tell you that I’m the smartest student they know. Oh, how I hate high school…rant for another time.</p>
<p>Besides, many non-Ivies are academically better than the Ivies (excluding Princeton)…and the Ivies are only 8 schools. They just can’t fit them all.</p>
<p>I think you should get over the fact that ivy’s are amazing.</p>
<p>To be honest, I think that many universities are amazing. In the United States, we dedicate millions and billions of dollars at all levels of college, from research to undergraduate. We provide thousands of services for researchers, graduate students, to even helping those who are just now leaving home for the first time. Private donors or public funding, small or large, LAC or research university, many of the colleges of the United States are excellent, amazing even.</p>
<p>At MIT they’re working on providing laptops to every child in the world. At Yale, they’re creating an entire class of Ciceros. At Rutgers, they’re working on political awareness and new techniques in physics. At Rhodes they’re helping children recover from some of nature’s worst illnesses. </p>
<p>The Ivy League is nice, and they provide some great opportunities, but so do many American schools. Including, contrary to the belief of many, the flagship state universities. </p>
<p>I love that Columbia has a core curriculum, and that Brown has none at all, and that Harvard has more money than some nations do, and that Yale has the money to provide a residential college experience. But I also love the alma mater of the Chicago Boys, and too I love the alma mater of their leader- Rutgers.</p>
<p>I like that UVA was founded by Thomas Jefferson, and Penn by Ben Franklin. But I like that forward thinking schools exist too, techinical institutes to provide education for the modern world, Georgian Court or Barnard, which support a woman’s collegiate experience. Or NJIT that works in inner cities with technology. </p>
<p>I don’t mean to say that I want to attend every school in the United States, or even that every one is amazing. Some, frankly, aren’t.</p>
<p>I could never see myself at NJIT, but nor could I see myself at Dartmouth.
And, to be honest, I consider some schools to be nothing more than four year vacations, home of the sons of the wealthy, or those who pretend to be so. These schools aren’t, in my estimation, amazing or even good. </p>
<p>But there are a lot more than eight amazing schools.</p>
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<p>Since when? </p>
<p>It’s a KNOWN FACT that the Ivy reserves 30% of its slots for LEGACY! </p>
<p>[Model</a> Minority “Thugs, Feminists and Boom Bap”: The Ivy League and the IIlusion of Accessbility](<a href=“http://modelminority.blogspot.com/2007/12/ivy-leage-and-iilusion-of-accesbility.html]Model”>Model Minority "Thugs, Feminists and Boom Bap": The Ivy League and the IIlusion of Accessbility)</p>
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<p>I never said that, but you’re missing the point. These people are getting in based on non-academic qualities, something I DO NOT AGREE WITH. Are they brilliant? Perhaps. Do I care? NO. </p>
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<p>Shocking.<br>
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<p>Fanboy much? The Ivy League is not about the best or the brightest, it’s about the committed or the prepped. You’ve either been pampered since day one to be an Ivy God (which, sadly, makes up a significant portion of the admits) or you’re a dedicated student with decent scores and decent e.c.</p>
<p>People paint the Ivy League admissions process like it’s the Earth equivalent of heaven, when it’s far far from that. The American college admissions process is nothing but ruthless, superficiality, power, and money. This is doubly so for the Ivy League. Only the most creative/genius will get in with a happy face and a clean report card.</p>
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<p>I understand it to be about half that, as in this quote from an article in The Economist: “In most Ivy League institutions, legacies make up between 10% and 15% of every freshman class.” Here are some more quotes, from the Ivies’ own newspapers:</p>
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<p>Perhaps you meant percent of legacy applicants who are admitted?</p>
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<p>You understand wrong. The Ivy League reserves 30% of all available spaces to legacy. </p>
<p>The overall student body % isn’t a fair comparison because you have to take into the account of the graduating class.</p>
<p>Now, now, HSisOverrated, I never said the Ivy admissions process was idyllic, and I suppose I didn’t really mean the best and the brightest and all. My point was simply that some of your numbers were off; I, personally, know some brilliant kids going to Ivies/Ivy Equivalents. I also know some brilliant kids going to non-Ivies or equivalent. However, from my area (suburban NJ), the kids who go to Ivies usually deserve it, whether they are legacy or not. The ones who aren’t at Ivies usually tried for Ivies, didn’t make it, and are perfectly happy where they are now as well. </p>
<p>I dunno. I think the Ivies still house a lot of the smartest kids. By no means all, but I’d say you’re much more likely to find a high percentage of really smart kids at Columbia than at, say, a CUNY school. </p>
<p>I would also like to add that I, too, disagree with the admissions process at the Ivies; I wish factors like race, legacy, etc. did not come into play. However, the fact of the matter is that they do, and if you don’t have any of those advantages, then you have to find another way to get a great education, whether at an Ivy or not. </p>
<p>I don’t know. This post is incoherent.</p>
<p>And I’m pretty sure BookLady didn’t understand wrong. That seems pretty clear. I don’t see what the graduating class has to do with anything. The graduating class has the same % legacy as the rest of the class.</p>
<p>I’d just like to if we’ve expanded the definition of “ivy” in this thread to the top 10-25 colleges, because I think it’s pretty obvious that the concentration of “smart” people at these colleges is much higher than at most others.</p>
<p>----The “smartest” students go wherever the heck they want. Those are the people who can succeed wherever they go (and many of them know it). -----</p>
<p>^Raimius said it best about 20 posts back. </p>
<p>Smart students who go to Ivies for the intellectual environment will be successful, but those who go because they think they it will help them make more money in life will always be chasing that extra dollar and never be satisfied. </p>
<p>Those who choose instead to go to less ‘prestigious’ universities because they feel they will be most happy there will be successful as well, as they have a confidence and personal qualities/values that cannot be taught in any college. </p>
<p>Don’t hate on people who go to ivies for the academic environment and love for learning. But also don’t look down on kids at lower ranked schools as some of them are no doubt more intelligent than those at the ivies. The only “second class” in this whole thing, if you will, is prestige-whores.</p>
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<p>sure there is. want me to name a few?</p>
<p>Amherst
Williams
Duke
UC Berkeley
Virginia
Haverford
Pomona
Notre Dame
Stanford
Johns Hopkins
Northwestern</p>
<p>I’m sure I can figure out a few more, if you want. Ivy’s are great, and they’re elite, and prestigious, and they have excellent students. But to take that strength away from other schools is simply inaccurate.</p>
<p>like i said, you need to expand the definition of ivy, at least in this thread, to top lac’s and universities. i think the point that many of the individuals here are trying to make is that the smartest kids could end up at state universities or small unknown schools, and that theyll end up just as succesful. I personally dont disagree, but i do think that the concentration of intellect is much much higher at these top universities than anywhere else; the level of intellect is a reflection on the student body</p>