<p>One bank write off $40 BILLION another announced $10 Billion worthless loan writedown and all George can come up with is a lousey $150 Billion?
If I get a refund stimulus check it will be used to pay off the credit card that stimulated the economy three months ago and if i have any thing left over I’ll stimulate the economy by purchaseing a brand new tube of hemeoroid creme.</p>
<p>There is really only two ways to turn the economy around and that is to give permanent tax breaks to corporations that increase the wages of all workers under the social security limitation. (in other words not just new jobs but real wage increases that dont go to the owners) The other way is to regulate a ceiling on interest rates that makes credit cards limit interest to three time the federal borrowing rate. In other words federal usary laws. Right now the credit card companies play russian roulette hoping to lead consumers into default interest rates of 30% to 35%.</p>
<p>I’m not sure how a stimulus plan is going to prevent a recession. I don’t know why we can’t have a recession. Recessions aren’t permanent. I guess it is bad luck that this recession is happening in an election year. </p>
<p>Sen. Charles Schumer Says Limiting Stimulus to Those Who Pay Income Tax Is Unfair </p>
<p>WASHINGTON (AP) – Any rebate included in an economic stimulus plan should include people who pay Social Security taxes, not just those who pay income taxes, a leading Democratic lawmaker said Sunday.</p>
<p>“If we did the rebate based on the payroll tax, it would hit a lot more people at a lower end of the spectrum. And so to just say income taxes are the only taxes we’re considering that people pay is unfair,” said Charles Schumer, the New York lawmaker who is chairman of the congressional Joint Economic Committee. People making $35,000 to $50,000 pay a lot of federal taxes, he said, but much of that is not income tax, but directed to programs like Social Security."</p>
<p>The democrats and the republicans just love to fight. Why wouldn’t you help those at the bottom of the econopmic ladder. And giving $1600 to those in the top 1% or 2% of the ladder is going to cost nothing, so why not include them too.</p>
<p>Dang tootin’!!! All Americans NEED to be part of the stimulus to be doing their part. You can’t let the “haves” get away without doing their part. No way! Just not American. </p>
<p>NPR had a pretty convincing economist on saying we are way overreacting to the downturn mostly in the housing market area which is just 5% of GNP. He noted that exports are up over 10% and exports are about 13% of GNP and more than offsetting the loss in homebuilding activity. Also most of the downturn is in four markest–Mich, Cal, Nevada, and Florida. He said if the stimulus makes people feel better that’s fine but it is not needed. He and most econs are still forecasting 3% GNP growth in 2008. But that does not sell newspapers–we need CRISIS.</p>
<p>Not buying “the everything is fine” line at all.</p>
<p>It’s not everyday when foreign gov’ts and institutions are spending billions to bail out US financial institutions and in turn buying themselves increased control over our boardrooms; especially when these are gov’ts and institutions based in China and the middle east. No…at this increased level of their investments this is not very comforting.</p>
<p>Not everyday when the Fed runs to the gov’t and screams “do something now.” Not everyday when the gov’t calls our economic outlook “fragile”. That’s a pretty telling word, don’t you think. Listen carefully, folks. No one is screaming crisis but you can hear it being whispered by the folks in charge.</p>
<p>When was the last time the insurers for the banks stated they don’t have enough $$ to finance the banks losses that they promised to cover
and that they themselves might be going under.</p>
<p>Listen carefully. Its like “the perfect storm.”</p>
<p>Sax, first the bond markets wobble and now the stock markets are starting to say you are right. I hope you clicked on the Bloomberg link in post #42.</p>
<p>It bugs me. It is ok for our largest companies to sell portions of themselves to foreign countries but can you imagine the uproar if the US government bought investment stakes in these same companies. Before we know it Citicorp is going to be owned by every major country in the world except us.</p>
<p>Anyway, I think your analysis is correct. </p>
<p>Maybe large interest rate cuts will slow the tide.
I’m thinking Bernanke is going to cut rates a point at the next meeting (or sooner). He must be getting tired of all the criticism. Criticism by the financiers who put us in this mess.</p>
<p>Economists talking about 3% growth. Who pays these guys?</p>
<p>On the web page at the right it should say the right side of the screen, Dow…down 59… </p>
<p>That is Friday’s close.</p>
<p>If you scroll down the page, on the right hand side you can see the US future markets. </p>
<p>As of now, 9:55 AM Pacific time, the Dow jones futures are down 500 + points and the S&P futures are down 60 points. This can change because the markets are volatile but these aren’t ordinary moves to say the least.</p>
<p>If the Fed doesn’t cut soon and large (even though I think it’s bs if they do), it looks ugly.</p>
<p>We are seeing the downside of leverage. Works great on the way up. Messy on the way down. We built the economy over the last 6 years on funny money. </p>
<p>At least there is still more Monopoly money printed every day (the game) than money from the US Treasury.</p>
<p>The banks got themselves into this mess and I am enjoying watching them get fired. If this spreads to the overhyped Hedge and private Capital markets all the better. It will be worth it. Then real companies can once again be left alone to make reasonable profits and decisions for the longer term.</p>
<p>“I do not consider living within your means being cheap or frugal.”</p>
<p>Living within your means is unAmerican. It is bad for the economy, and really, really bad for the sweater manufacturers. </p>
<p>$150 billion could buy PRIVATE health care coverage for everyone. It would be an immediate stimulus to the economy. It would be used immediately. It would prevent thousands of bankruptcies. It would lift beaten-down pharmaceutical stocks. It would result in the employment of thousands of CNAs, clericals, and insurance workers. It would aid manufacturers of durable medical equipment. It would increase worker productivity. It would help children perform better in school. </p>
<p>Did you know that cnbc HAS to have an equal # of people who are pro/con issues? and the agendas of some of these people are amazing…</p>
<p>It’s all about power in the long run and those with the power are those w/the energy. Did you know that China is using much of it’s new capital to buy up as much of the worlds natural resources as possible. </p>
<p>In the last twenty or so years it seems as if our corporations have increasingly stopped looking long term. Everything is for short term wealth accumulation and greed without concerns for longevity and strength. This is not a great way to run a business as the mortgage guys found out. Except of course the CEO’s who are being let go w/ millions(billions?) in personal profit. “Oh…my bad” Just some random thoughts…</p>
<p>dstark… with any luck we are both wrong but Im not jumping back in until it starts to trend upward.</p>
<p>mini…now that’s an interesting idea.</p>
<p>What are the odds that the powers that be gave this some thought this weekend and decided to do something different than the current stimulus plan?</p>
<p>“The banks got themselves into this mess and I am enjoying watching them get fired. If this spreads to the overhyped Hedge and private Capital markets all the better. It will be worth it. Then real companies can once again be left alone to make reasonable profits and decisions for the longer term.”</p>
<p>Barrons. I agree. It pi**** me off, but I think when it is all over, the ones that got us into this mess are going to be more than ok.</p>
<p>I’m going to have my worst day tomorrow since the early 90’s the way things are going (and I’m not that long since I have been more than cautious watching all the funny money be produced). I wouldn’t care about my worst day, if I thought those that caused the problems were going to be the most affected and Barrons you were right.</p>
<p>Mini, your ideas may be true, I think we need to change health care too ;), but we are kind of in a bind right now. Looks like trillions of losses. </p>
<p>We both know the stimulus plan being talked about is about politics not economics. :)</p>
<p>“…with any hope they are at least having a conference call.”</p>
<p>lol</p>
<p>I think they are going to cut the rates a tremendous amount. What I really think happens then is it bails out the problem causers and postpones economic and financial issues that have to be addressed if we don’t want an economy based on funny money.</p>
<p>We are stuck though because we can’t have too bad a recession in an election year. Some politicans may lose their jobs.</p>
<p>I just remember back in August when she accused one of their guests of being rediculous because he was talking major downturn. I figure all of these kids think they are investing gurus because they made a crapload of $$$ in the market these last five years. Did they ever take the chart out 10 years. Did they ever look at the market between 65 and 75. Ahhh… to be so young.</p>
<p>“How long would that $150 Million last buying insurance? One year? Not much point in that.”</p>
<p>Tell that to someone without health insurance who is going bankrupt because of an operation they can’t pay for, or who has been putting off necessary health care for 5 years and might end up in the ER, or to the pharmaceutical companies who are taking a bath.</p>
<p>One year would be GREAT - and ALL of it, every single dollar, would be plowed back into the U.S. economy immediately (and not spent on sweaters made by bonded child labor in India.)</p>
but Im not jumping back in until it starts to trend upward.</p>