NJTM used to read the books twice, even thrice, and NOTATE. ^:)^
Not me B-). (Not that’s a surprise to anyone.)
I take that back: I’ve reread a couple books over the years but only because I had already read them and needed to reacquaint myself with characters and plot. Mostly I read the books once and just jump in with thoughts, feelings, impressions. I have, though, always read the books - even finished my less-than-favorites (Reading Lolita in Tehran, ugh) - even if it meant I showed up here at discussion mid-point.
Now, for my real life book clubs, I’ve shown up - mainly lately - without reading the book. I’ll admit it though.
I agree with @VeryHappy - posters here are prepared to discuss. It’s why I like this book club. Discussion seems superficial in my other book clubs - on occasion, almost nonexistent. I’m thinking of dropping one of my two real-life book clubs for that reason. It also seems the same book (just different title, characters, author) gets chosen again and again which is a reason behind the superficial discussion. Everything has been said already. I like the ladies though and will miss them if I quit going.
I’ve read every book we’ve discussed and sometimes I even read them twice. I put post-its to mark things I think I might want to discuss if I’m reading a hard copy and am trying to remember and figure out how to use similar features on the Kindle. I can’t imagine trying to fake it!
The description of Blake in the story, both in appearance and life experience, made him seem much older. I had a hard time making him look younger in my head after I realized he wasn’t very old.
^ The second book arrived at the library today, on hold till I can pick it up. I’m curious whether I’ll like the change in setting or not. Anyway, I look forward to reading it.
After the Baltimore riots in 2015, the rioters were often referred to as “thugs”. Many were offended saying ‘thug’ is a racially charged word. Here is a A Brief History of the Word ‘Thug’ from Newsweek written after the Baltimore riots.
I liked the second book better in some ways - Avery somewhat more grown up. Blake slightly (very slightly!) more forthcoming. OTOH Avery seems to have less of a personality, but maybe he’ll get one eventually.
I’m not convinced in either book we are given enough clues to really solve the mysteries ourselves.
So I’ve been enjoying the history lessons more than the plot.
Long lurker here, finally was able to read the book at the same time as everyone else. I am a little slow to get comments thought out though so here is a scatter of several I collected. I too pictured Blake as old. I am surprised he is not. I thought the strangler vine could not only be the compnay but also be the opium, at first so pleasing and then destroying everything. Not that I want to bring politics in, but it seems as if any entity trying exert complete control has to have a bogeyman for everyone to fear and hate and make the bottom of the social order. In this instance it was the Thuggee. Between the opium and the Thuggee they served to allow the power structure to strengthen. I am not really sold on this as a mystery as much as a tale. I was not as interested in solving anything as in enjoying the journey.
^ @Singersmom07: You’re right about the opium addiction; I hadn’t thought of that.
I too saw The Strangler Vine as more of a journey - across India and in the relationship between Avery and Blake.
I also thought Avery’s books make the journey alongside Avery in more than the physical sense. As Avery awakens to the realities of India - rather than the romanticized version he’d read - his books no longer stay in pristine condition. They end as tattered and torn as he and Blake - and as tattered and torn as his idealized view of The Company as the answer to all India’s woes.
Good observation on the opium addiction. I like how we’re finding that the title has multiple layers of meaning.
I thought so, too. I liked Avery, but he was something of a tabula rasa – a little bland, waiting to be seasoned by experience. We’ve talked about deceptive and unreliable narrators in previous discussions, but Avery seemed like the opposite: earnest, good-hearted and very reliable in relaying events (although he sometimes misinterprets them).
The tvtropes site mentions that Dr. Watson of the Sherlock Holmes series is the most famous example of a supporting protagonist. I can see a Watson-Holmes dynamic with Avery and Blake. (And that’s kind of funny because I remember that @ignatius made a similar comparison with Spencer and Luke in The Essex Serpent. So I guess, as the website suggests, the pairing of the brusque, rude genius and his polite, straight-arrow partner is something of a literary trope.)
I think the Holmes/Watson reflection is very deliberate. It’s a winning formula. It allows a first person narrator to be honest without giving away the secret.
I remember feeling much the same way when reading The Essex Serpent and The Dig regarding the mix of setting and British history. The reviews - mainly British - for those books plus The Strangler Vine are glowing. Me, I like the books, just not to the extent the reviewers do. I missed the recognition factor that the reviewers had going for them. On the other hand, I learned about the excavation at Sutton Hoo and the salt marshes and mudflats of Essex. So, while I may have missed out on the recognition fun, I gained in the exposed-to-something-new-and-interesting fun. In time I’ll probably remember less about the plot than I will about the setting and history.
Avery may be naive, but he becomes an astute “reader” of the enigmatic (and at times, off-putting) Blake. Avery is much more socially presentable and concerned about convention. For example, at the Sleeman dinner party, Avery jumped in to prevent social disaster. I love how Blake is so cynical, and I found myself amused by these two!
The short answer is that they’re both rigid and fluid. The British Company and the Indian Courts influenced and challenged each other’s long-held traditions and cultural beliefs.
We’ve condemned the British (and rightly so) for what they did to the native people, but the Indian system had problems of its own. The princes were caught between cultures — forced to answer to the Crown if they wanted to retain their kingdom, but then unable or unwilling to use their princely status to help their subjects. Blake talks about the famine that is beginning to creep through the country, and the travelers are attacked by thieves who are hungry. Yet this is the description of the Rao:
His palace is in the same vein—“glinting chandeliers” and silks and red velvet. Maybe the people took some pride in the opulent lifestyle of their prince. Even so, I think greed played a part in the local kingdoms as well as in the East India Company. This site has some interesting info about India’s royal courts: https://www.asianart.com/exhibitions/maharaja/intro.html , for example:
The Rao fits some of the above description. He tells Blake and Avery (in perfect English) that he attended Drummond’s Academy in Calcutta: ”… they gave me two tutors, German Lutheran missionaries, who failed to instill Christian beliefs in me, I fear, but gave me the Enlightenment instead: mathematics, botany, astronomy, music and poetry.”
The Rao says of his young classmate, Henry Derozio, “…we found fellowship in that neither of us fitted. He was neither native nor European, and far too radical for either Hindoo or English. I was a prince, admiring European learning, but tied to my Hindoo heritage—never enough of one or the other” (p. 238).
I noted that the discussion questions on page 1 fail to mention Mir Aziz. I don’t want this discussion to wind down without discussing him. One of the reasons Mir Aziz’s betrayal shocked is because I thought - like Blake - he cared for Avery. Despite everything - like being willing to kill Avery - my opinion of Mir Aziz didn’t change. IMHO Mir Aziz is a well-written complex character.
Yes, even though Mir Aziz was revealed as the “bad guy,” I still felt his earlier moments of kindness were genuine: Teaching Avery Hindustani, helping him pack and wrap his books, praying over Nungoo’s body, removing cataracts (an interesting scene!), and in the end, quietly trying to spare Avery from what is to come, telling him “Chote sahib, I ask you humbly. Return to Mirzapore” (p. 248).
I would think Mir Aziz’s betrayal would be a particular blow to Blake, as he seemed to like and respect him (and he doesn’t feel that way about very many people in his life).