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<p>Birds are not materially affected by windmills. I think you mean bats.</p>
<p>Yes birds will die. Look at the migration patterns map here:
[NPWRC</a> :: Migration of Birds](<a href=“http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/birds/migratio/routes.htm]NPWRC”>http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/birds/migratio/routes.htm)</p>
<p>Razorsharp, here is a site for you to help educating yourself … just a bit:</p>
<p>[Resource</a> Library](<a href=“http://www.awea.org/resources/resource_library/index.html]Resource”>http://www.awea.org/resources/resource_library/index.html)</p>
<p>For birds versus bats, this should help you:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.awea.org/pubs/documents/WEBBProceedings9.14.04[Final].pdf[/url]”>http://www.awea.org/pubs/documents/WEBBProceedings9.14.04[Final].pdf</a></p>
<p>If you plan to speak positively about your friend Boone’s windfarms, you might pick up a bit of knowledge about the industry and the technology. </p>
<p>I recommend to start with the middle and elementary school presentations. That’s the Wind Energy Teachers Guide.</p>
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<p>[Wind</a> Energy and the Environment](<a href=“http://www.awea.org/faq/wwt_environment.html#Bird%20and%20bat%20kills%20and%20other%20effects]Wind”>http://www.awea.org/faq/wwt_environment.html#Bird%20and%20bat%20kills%20and%20other%20effects).</p>
<p>Windmills don’t kill birds any more than other human activities.</p>
<p>AMom2 check out this site:
[What</a> Kills Birds?](<a href=“Flyttstädning med städföretag – När du bokar städ”>Flyttstädning med städföretag – När du bokar städ)</p>
<p>another good site:
[whywind.org</a> - Wind Power Myths](<a href=“http://www.whywind.org/pb/wp_a1b4e1bf/wp_a1b4e1bf.html]whywind.org”>http://www.whywind.org/pb/wp_a1b4e1bf/wp_a1b4e1bf.html)</p>
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<p>I would suggest you start examining problems using logic and reasoning rather than just forming your opinion and then finding only information that supports your opinion. Some people study all their lives and still can’t achieve this simple goal. It is the difference between being open minded and closed minded.</p>
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<p>From the link at post 25.</p>
<p>I think this could make a great public/private partnership, with the public collecting royalties on the energy produced and put back into conservation efforts.</p>
<p>^LOL–Not what Pickens is proposing! He wants US to foot the bill while he reaps the profits! Have you looked at what he wants all of us to pay for his plan?</p>
<p>Venter isn’t asking for anything! He’s investing his own money!</p>
<p>AMom2 could you provide me a link to Venter’s plan?</p>
<p>Razorsharp, you are so intent on being contrarian that you forget your original argument. </p>
<p>Are you, in general terms, a supporter of wind energy? Do you support the development of alternative in general? </p>
<p>Since you accuse others of forming an opinion without much thought, may I ask you when did you start looking at wind energy with a favorable eye? </p>
<p>As far a solving our energy crisis, do you support raising the taxes on gasoline to support development in the infrastructure needed for alternative energy. How much are you prepared to pay more for your gallon of gas? Do you approve the extra taxes that are needed to fund Pickens’ grid? </p>
<p>If the example of incremental cost of gasoline is too hard to follow, here’s an different question. Would be prepared to pay an extra 10% or extra 15% of your electicity to fund the additional transmission lines needed to connect Pickens wind projects? After all, the money has to come from … someone. </p>
<p>Just curious!</p>
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<p>Xiggi, your form of argument is to ignore the issue and focus on making personal attacks on anyone who might happen to disagree with your opinion. Just like the above quoted comment. You suggest others read publications when it is clear you have not done your homework. Your form of argument is to assume you can read the mind of others such as Mr. Pickens as if you have superhuman ability to read minds. It is difficult to take your arguments seriously when you cannot back up what you say. </p>
<p>It would not surprise me if you were one of those people who thinks ethanol is a joke and should be abandoned immediately. Right? Just curious.</p>
<p>Maybe someone could harness the wind and energy in this thread and power several cities for a few months? :)</p>
<p>I have no idea of the plan details but is seems that oil man Pickens gets it. Travel around Europe and you observe that other nations are doing much more than the USA to limit oil consumption and imports.</p>
<p>However the US consumer is already beginning to adjust to the spike in oil prices. And this winter they will make further “lifestyle” changes to reduce home heating costs.</p>
<p>Anyone knows that increased oil exploration is a long term plan and will do little to impact the current oil supply situation. The same applies to alternative energy projects which are years down the road at best.</p>
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<p>RS, your last post is a gem.</p>
<p>Should we look at the history of the thread? I posted my analysis and opinion about the plan in answer to the OP. While you might disagree with my opinion on the same, you countered with “Nonsense. You know nothing about Boone Pickens.” So, who is offering an analysis and who is reverting to personal attacks. </p>
<p>I suggested you should check a few publications because I thought you could learn a bit about the wind energy industry, and maybe understand better the proposal of Pickens. I’d be happy to compare our notes and information on the subject. FYI, a few people who know our family IRL and participate in this forum would certainly laugh at your comment about “not doing” homework or having to educate myself anout the issues discussed in this thread. </p>
<p>As far as backing up what I say, I have posted in my original post what I thought about Mr. Pickens plan and his motivation. Why don’t you look up the information that could cover my “allegations” with ridicule? Why don;t you tell us the real story about his investments in Roberts County and the creation of a municipal district that could issue tax-free bonds? Why don’t you explain his role in “suggesting” to the State of Texas to build a 5 billion renewable energy grid to connect to ERCOT? Why don’t you explain how Pickens expects to “purchase” the rights-of-way that are SO necessary for the building of an electricity grid and … a water pipeline for his proposed sale of water to city of Dallas? How mcuh does he expects to profiteer from his water rights? Could you please give us the real story about the possible unnatural depletion of the aquifer? Could he do without the help of “eminent domain” laws?</p>
<p>Should we discuss his plan for natural gas? Do you want to explain how the patriotic Pickens expects to pay for the conversion of tens of thousands of gas station to natural gas? Could you please explain where all that gas is supposed to come from? What will be the impact of further increase of gas prices as demand rise beyond the typical use of production of electricity and heating? Aren’t we already importing gas … or are we self-sufficient? Could you please tell us about the investments of Pickens in natural gas and in gas conversion technology? The floor is all yours! </p>
<p>Should we compare our notes about the wind industry? Name the country and we will start? Do you want to discuss the United States? Do we want to discuss California and the differences between the markets of Altalmont Pass verus Tehachapi? Do you want to discuss the differences in the marlet penetration of Germany and Spain? Do you want to discuss what people such as Aloys Wobben or Ken Karas have brought to the industry? Do we need to discuss the technical differences between a Vestas, a GE, an Enercon, or a Bergey wind turbine? Is a Zond turbine a GE or a Clipper? </p>
<p>Ethanol? What do you want to discuss here? Corn based ethanol? Sugarcane ethanol? Cellulosic ethanol? Domestic market? Foreign markets such as Brazil or Peru? Differences between companies such as Ceres or Abengoa? Pacific Ethanol versus Range Fuels? Market potential in the United States? </p>
<p>So, Razorsharp, where and when do we start comparing notes? Are YOU ready to back up YOUR arguments? </p>
<p>I am not holding my bated breath on this one!</p>
<p>xiggi,</p>
<p>^You know and understand what Pickens is doing!</p>
<p>BTW, I really like the idea of windmills. I wanted to put windmills on my own land in west Texas and sell my excess to the power companies. Unfortunately, after I looked at all of the cost, bird killing, and soil physics, it didn’t make since. One other thing, the wind does stop blowing. It’ not that reliable.</p>
<p>I’m researching solar panels now! The cost is getting better everyday with new technology in the works now.</p>
<p>Here is Venter’s info from Newsweek: [Zakaria:</a> Craig Venter’s Planet-Saving Bacterium | Newsweek Future Of Energy | Newsweek.com](<a href=“http://www.newsweek.com/id/140066]Zakaria:”>http://www.newsweek.com/id/140066)</p>
<p>AMom2 that is interesting and I would never argue against exploring it as a future option. Comparing it to Pickens proposal is apples to oranges though. Pickens is giving an immediate proposal to help wean us (in a significant way) off of foreign oil. I don’t see how Pickens and Venter should even be discussed in the same thread. Like Pickens, let’s talk about what to do RIGHT NOW. </p>
<p>Xiggi I’m not trying to debate you or anyone else, I just don’t see you offering up anything better. In fact I don’t see you offering up any solutions at all, just criticisms of those who do. So what’s your immediate and feasible solution to significantly wean us from our dependency on foreign oil? What can we do that won’t cost us millions of dollars in the conversion process?</p>
<p>^Oh so windmills and transmission lines will pop up tomorrow? It will take years. Just to get the transmission rights will take years! Windmills will not wean us off foreign oil! The most that is projected from windmill power is at very high side is only 20% if that. It really is about 10 to 16%.</p>
<p>Venter’s plan could be up in 4 years. I hope! Right now we have to explore anywhere we can in the US and that means offshore. Here is a map of the offshore that is off limits: [Where</a> is offshore drilling allowed? - CNN.com](<a href=“http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/06/18/map.offshore.drilling/index.html]Where”>Where is offshore drilling allowed? - CNN.com)</p>
<p>Why does everybody seem to talk about this issue in terms of “we can’t do X because it’s not going to provide all the energy we need, it only produces 10% or 20%” (i know there are other points). If you had 5 different sources of energy and they each produce 20%, then you’ve got 100% of your energy. When I read Shell’s forecasts they were advocating doing basically everything - wind, solar, fuel cell, coal, gas, petroleum, coupled with conservation and evergy saving technology. Shell emphasized there is no one thing that will save us, we must do it all and start doing it now. And if it costs $$, then it costs $$. The alternative is NO ENERGY. Or an energy war, take your pick.</p>
<p>The other thing that bugs me is all this “it will take years to do this”. Will it? Then we’d better get started.</p>
<p>I thought they were building a huge wind farm in west Texas. Out paper had an article about it and said Texas was going to be the main producer of energy for the US in just a few years. Is this not true? At my D’s apt in Dallas she is getting her electricity from an outfit called “Green Energy” or somesuch, and it is supposed to be “all renewable sustainable wind and water produced electricity”. At least that’s what she told me.</p>
<p>I googled it. D uses Green Mountain Energy.</p>
<p>[Green</a> Mountain Energy Company: The Nation’s Leading Provider of Cleaner Energy and Offset Solutions](<a href=“http://www.greenmountainenergy.com/]Green”>http://www.greenmountainenergy.com/)</p>