<p>Some of the comments about Penn above are hysterical. Penn is no more dangerous than any other big-city campus, and considerably less dangerous than many. </p>
<p>I think you’re wrong to question the engineering quality at Rice. But if you plan to return to Dubai, or Europe, my guess is that Berkeley does carry more name recognition. Kids love love love Rice, though – a very personal feel.</p>
<p>JHS- I reread this thread so you must be responding to my comments that Phila has had a rash of homocides this year, which is true. It is on daily news as you know. </p>
<p>I did comment that last year there were some incidents near/ on Penn campus and the school responded immediately with emails to students/ parents, and beefing up the security and pumping millions more into it. </p>
<p>Do you disagree?</p>
<p>If Penn is any more dangerous than any urban campus- I did not say or imply this. I don’t know- but, just spoke to Penn issues. </p>
<p>Which comments were hysterical?</p>
<p>Yes, your comments were hysterical. </p>
<p>Philadelphia has had a rash of homicides this year, few if any of which have been within two miles of the Penn campus. (And those that were within two miles of the Penn campus were in neighborhoods that don’t interact with the Penn campus much.) Homicides are still a relatively rare crime. By most measures, street crime (muggings, rape, etc.) is down.</p>
<p>I don’t remember any particular incidents at Penn last year, but I’m neither a Penn parent nor a Penn student. There have been reports of a serial rapist in Center City, which is not far from Penn. But we’re talking about 5-6 rapes possibly committed by a single person in the space of 2-3 years in neighborhoods across the river from Penn (but less psychologically isolated from it). I doubt the university “pumped millions” into more security for anything specific. I don’t doubt that the university spends millions on security.</p>
<p>I lived on the outskirts of the Penn area for years, raised my children there, walked around at night, etc. I still spend time around there sometimes. It’s perfectly vibrant. People aren’t cowering in fear. You should try coming in from South Jersey some time.</p>
<p>What a unique opportunity. I think one should attend Penn and the other Duke, for the first semester. Then switch schools for the next semester (assuming the other’s identity) . Then write a book about your experiences at each school.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>You can prove this false!! :D</p>
<p>From my own experience - I wanted another degree and went to a state school, and they would give me no credit for doctoroate, because it was too old, and they were locked into all kinds of rules and regulations that were propounded by the state government. Attended a seminar at a private college, and talked to the prof. Next semester, I was at the private, 2 classes later, I was taking the exam, and received my certification! It cost as much, but I saved 1 1/2 years! D, too, at her private college, finds that they are able to work things out for her in many ways that her friends at state schools can’t. And most of them will ahve to go an extra year, because they are having a hard time getting their classes. They have been having problems with housing, so most are now in apartments. I have had a few students of mine go to Rice, and they really thrive there. One of them is an engineering major (who still keeps in touch) and she just received an internship for the summer! The reputation is wonderful, and there is terrific support there, too. Asd to Berkeley, I am concerned about you guys getting swallowed up in itds size and the beauraucracy, especially at your age.</p>
<p>Thanks to everyone who responded! (Due to the vagaries of International time zones we’re sorry to say that we weren’t able to respond until the sun had risen on this side of the world… :))</p>
<p>@ Calmom & mameyu: Thanks for your comments, it’s always good to hear a personal perspective. (One of the reasons that we decided to post this thread was that very few of the people we know have been to these colleges) We’re in no way ruling out Berkeley yet. (The reason for my comment on Internationals was in fact the USNWR site, (That haven of misinformation :)), which shows only 96 internationals in their incoming class. Actually for us, that isn’t really a consideration. We’re confident that we’ll be at home at a college, regardless of the number of people who’ve come from overseas.</p>
<p>@simba: 45-48 K is the limit of our budget at the moment. (We’ve worked out a financial arrangement that’ll allow for that without hardship to our parents.) However, if we do get any merit scholarships at Rice/Regents does turn out to be more than $1000, well then, they’ll jump to the top of the list.</p>
<p>@cheers: Well we’ve discussed that as well. We’re not actually planning on going into research. (Kaushik has this deluded plan of working in the private sector for a few years, gaining financial security, and then running off to the UN or an NGO to do God knows what using both Engineering and IR. :))</p>
<p>Actually you raise another interesting point. (One we bored our interviewers to death with). We’ve both got slightly split identities. On the one hand we get ridiculously excited when reading about mesons and leptons and quarks and all the rest of the subatomic brigade, but on the other hand, we love to talk and write, usually about nothing. (No, we’re not considering a course on the philosophy of Seinfeld. :)) We’re actually not sure how this will play out in the future, which is one reason why we want to go to a college that isn’t only Engineering focussed.</p>
<p>(As so many people have responded, I’ll just post this, and respond in a later post) :D</p>
<p>Call me clueless, but when biomedical engineers work in the private sector, aren’t they mostly doing research in quiet private sector research labs? Are you saying that the private sector draws the frat boys of bio-med? </p>
<p>There are product design jobs in biomed engineering. Is that where you see yourself (s)? Please share. The actual job dreams may help to define which location would be better.</p>
<p>Don’t worry about the writing part–all the better to help you write grant requests with, my dears.</p>
<p>The long answer post, continued…</p>
<p>@The Rice tuition discussion group: We’re keeping that fact as a criterion in our decisions as well… (Though of course, the option remains that one of us may go to Rice and the other may go somewhere else)</p>
<p>@-mom-: Well to some degree we are following in the traditionally ordained path for Indians with a desire to go abroad, but this is completely due to our own desire for some degree of a safety with regard to the future, and not our parents’ input. (The type of non-engineering majors that we are considering pursuing are not directly pre-professional, and hence we thought engineering, for which we also have a passion, would be a good ‘safety net’ as it were.</p>
<p>@the Philadelphia safety discussion group: We are also in no way ruling out Penn just because it’s in a big city. (We can’t seem to rule out any of them really, but hey, this is just day 1 of “college decision month” :)) Judging by the type of people we are, we’ll tend to, if anything, err on the side of caution, so campus security is not that great a concern. </p>
<p>@NJres: We did try that in school one day. (Much hilarity ensued), but we’re kind of afraid of trying it out in college for fear of Federal Prosecution. :)</p>
<p>@ejr1: We are worried about that too, though again we’ll be talking to Berkeley about how the Regents could help in this. (We supposedly get a low number on the course choosing list, which should help us get what we want, along with guaranteed housing)</p>
<p>As that seems to be it. (Unless a post’s popped up while I’m typing this monstrosity), I’ll just thank all of you once again for your comments. Do keep them coming… :)</p>
<p>@Cheers: Biomedical’s just one of the things we’re throwing around. (The Nobel prize for indecision anyone?) We were actually considering joining the entire consultancy/ibanking bunch for 2-3 years, in which we’ll bury our souls and waste the prime of our youth. 
Thus gaining a bit of money, and then going off to grad school and whatever we intend to do over there. (Which will be, hopefully, more crystallized than what we intend to do now (which would take about 4 lifetimes on average)). (This whole vision’s starting to resemble something out of Christopher Marlowe really…)</p>
<p>Shrivats-
I don’t know about Rice or Berkeley safety issues, but I was on PENN campus often last year, in fact, I had the Daily Pennsylvanian issues addressing the increase in crime, and the immediate decisive action the Board of Trustees took in addressing the students and parents concerns. I copied and pasted this below :)</p>
<p>JHS- I was on Penn campus about month ago, attending the Vagina Monologues, dining at POD, with a Penn Prof, whose husband, is also, on staff at Penn. (she is from Jersey, too :)</p>
<p>Regarding Last Year’s Safety Concerns-
My cousin’s D was a freshman last year, and I talk/email her daily, and was kept well informed about the concern about Penn last year. Amy Gutman, is the new Pres of Penn, (came from Princeton, and she has great plans for Penn)</p>
<p>So I did some archival searches of the Daily Pennsylvanian, for data. </p>
<p>Don’t want to continue this “safety” issue-but, want you to know that I based my posts on FACTS.</p>
<p>Here they are:
Issue date: 11/4/05 Section: News
Gutmann pledges to reduce campus crime
Trustees briefed on Penn’s actions; crime rate up 17% this year </p>
<p>Penn’s Board of Trustees convened yesterday for the first time this academic year to debate long-term issues ranging from balancing the University’s budget to construction projects all over campus.
But combating the recent increase in crime on campus is one of the trustees’ top priorities – and they want students to feel the effects of their decisions as soon as possible.</p>
<p>University President Amy Gutmann said she will not rest until that number goes down. She said the problem is so pressing that she plans to highlight it in her address to the full board this morning. </p>
<p>Rush added that an additional $1 million added to the DPS budget will help pay for more Penn Police officers to patrol campus between 7 p.m. and 3 a.m. each night.</p>
<p>“We have had a challenging time that started at the end of spring semester,” Rush said. “The fear on campus has unfortunately escalated because of” the recent increase in crime.</p>
<p>FROM ANOTHER ARTICLE FRONT PAGE-
Walking escort services for the month of December totaled 1,331 people, a 245 percent increase from December 2004’s figure of 386. Overall, use of the service increased 87 percent from last year.</p>
<p>Penn crime uptick may have shifted north
898-WALK calls have surged over last year; DPS to take requests in advance via e-mail
Andrew Whitney</p>
<p>The group of young robbers that recently targeted Penn’s campus has shifted a few blocks north, police authorities say.
Two robberies occurred Monday night near Drexel University, and police believe that these are related to crimes that took place on Penn’s campus last week.</p>
<p>Penn Vice President for Public Safety Maureen Rush said that she is not comfortable with the proximity of the robberies to campus.</p>
<p>“What they’re doing up there today they could do anywhere tomorrow,” Rush said.</p>
<p>To ensure that the robbers do not return to Penn, Penn Police are partnering with their Philadelphia counterparts, Patrol Capt. Joseph Fischer said.</p>
<p>If you Penn safety issues resolved last year -think again</p>
<p>Headline from Feb Daily Pennsylvanian-
Issue date: 2/27/07 Section: News
Seven assaults hit U. City over last week
Two students, one University staff member are victims in alarmingly high number of attacks</p>
<p>Shrivats, the more I read of your posts, the more I think you’d find happiness anywhere. :)</p>
<p>My gut says Rice or NWU for the two of you. NWU is more suburban, but Rice is cheaper and in the heart of Houston’s medical center. Both campuses are pretty. Bioeng leans more Rice. Materials leans more NWU. But engineering and physics are great at both. You’ll have the chance to do research at either uni, which will be the most important factor should you choose grad school in engineering later. Chicago is a financial center, but Houston’s not too shabby in that regard (more going on with Central and South America). NWU may feed your artsy side slightly better, with its school of communication and proximity to Chicago. If you choose one, think about doing summer internships and/or research in the other [finance in Chicago (or NYC) and engineering in Houston]. </p>
<p>In Houston, you’ll sweat to death half the year. In Chicago, you’ll freeze to death the other half. Pick whichever will make you less miserable.</p>
<p>There was a thriving Indian community in Houston when I lived there years ago. My Indian friends tended toward the science and engineering professions, drawn by Big Oil; that probably hasn’t changed. I doubt you’d have a problem finding employment in either engineering or finance with only a bachelor’s.</p>
<p>Good luck whatever you decide!</p>
<p>@SouthJerseyChessMom: We’re not really that concerned about security. We’ll make sure we’re ‘aware’ wherever we go, and that should be enough, barring something that’s extremely improbable.</p>
<p>@Mudder’s Mudder: Thanks for your advice, though at the moment, Northwestern’s a bit low on our list… Currently, I’m not too sure I’d like the Duke atmosphere. (A bit too frat/party intensive for me). Penn has its attractions (Wharton, the possibility of a dual major there), so it’s about on par with Rice and Berkeley at the moment. So right now, unless someone changes my mind on Duke, I’m stuck with Rice v Penn v Berkeley, which is still as much of a confusing situation. :))</p>
<p>I don’t know if you mentioned it earlier (I remember reading that the 2 of you were making the decision independently) but how do you feel about attending school together? Would you prefer to be in the same school? Would you room together? (I would strongly discourage that). If attending different schools would you still want to be close enough to visit each other? I am mainly, just curious. With today’s national cellphone plans it is very easy to stay in very close contact with someone who is in another part of the country (in a way we could not when we were in college).</p>
<p>And I recommend Penn, based on my personal biases, prejudices, limited experiences and superficial reaction/ armchair psychoanalysis of your posts in this thread.</p>
<p>We don’t really mind being in the same college. We’ll make sure we room at opposite ends of the campus though. (And keep out of each other’s way for the first few days. :))</p>
<p>We wouldn’t really be biased towards nearer schools if we end up going to different ones, what with MSN and the like. (Though it would make it a bit difficult coordinating actually moving in… :))</p>
<p>And of course, given that we’re both going to be participating in Debating quite frequently, and most of these schools meet up for competitions every weekend, we’ll definitely be seeing/competing with each other. :)</p>
<p>Okay. That helps clarify things.</p>
<p>Rice is a school I’d recommend for just about anyone unable to visit. I really think most people, no matter their personal preferences, could find a comfortable niche there. The academics are excellent. </p>
<p>IMO, the others are more wild cards without visits.</p>
<p>Although I have no expertise about the U of PA. I do work in center city Philadelphia and live in a close by suburb and took great offense at the poster who summarized philly by its homicide rate this year. I have lived in the area since 1978 and Philadelphia becomes a more vibrant fun city every year. The Uof PA. has done a great job of working in conjunction with the city to revitalize the community surrounding the campus. There are great restaurants and shops around campus and center city is a fifteen minute walk down Walnut street from campus. Philly is a great cultural and sports city with fantastic college sport rivalries and four professional sports teams. In short Philly is a great university town. I went to college at NYU and Philly has become a place that many New Yorkers come to visit.</p>
<p>Yes there is crime in Philly,hello it is one of the largest urban areas in the USA, but if you are cautious about where you walk alone off campus at night and walk with a friend you will be fine.</p>
<p>I think Duke is located in an urban area.</p>
<p>So if anything Philly should be a plus not a negative.</p>
<p>Dana’s Dad</p>
<p>danalynne-I did not intend to summarize Phila by it’s homicide rate this year- but just wanted to inform the twins that there is concern in Phila this year. (yes,as there is in all major US cities) The twins are unable to visit these cities.</p>
<p>I agree Phila like all cities has vibrant, revitalized areas-wonderful communities,great restaurants, museums and art scene. It is a city on the upswing-</p>
<p>But, but , but is it not also, true that on the front page of Philadelphia Inquirer is this headline
“W Phila killing is 100th Homicide”
and, the article states
“The city’s muerder rate is more than 20% ahead of last year’s…”
As of last week, New York-with a population 6 times Philadelphia’s- has counted 84 homidcides this year. Los Angeles, more than twice the size of the city, had 80 killings as of Friday"</p>
<p>Let’s just say it is a concern to the Mayor and residents of Philadelphia …</p>
<p>Sons of Marlowe, if it’s biomed you’re after–or any of the sciences–does it make sense to check out the budget restrictions at UCB vs say UPenn? Just a thought.</p>
<p>I think I am voting for UPenn now that we are on page 2. Reasons:</p>
<ol>
<li> Wealthy, well-funded science labs.</li>
<li> Ivy league–branding is important in the ME and Asia.</li>
<li> Cold. Might as well experience the opposite to Dubai.</li>
<li> Okay city near one of the greatest cities on earth–New York.</li>
<li> Top finance program.</li>
</ol>
<p>Still, I think you need the freedom to carve out your own major–a cross between biomed, finance and poetry. Possibly a company to launch new products from? I could easily see the both of you leaving Penn with that in hand–as undergrads. </p>
<p>Be sure to take a look at all the core requirements and see if you want to take them–you might want to think about petitioning the school to skip a few that would be repeats of what you already know. Neogtiate that NOW.</p>
<p>Also, force yourselves to put together a spreadsheet of ALL the classes you’d like to take over the next four years–picking from the current course catalogue. Are there enough biomed courses at Penn? Will they let you take high level finance courses if you are not a Wharton student? (Business school admin can be snotty about outsiders). Can you write out your own major? Find out now and get permission before you go.</p>
<p>If it’s of any interest, I know a guy who made a fortune inventing biomed equip. He sent his science D to UPenn.</p>
<p>You guys are fun. You’re going to be a hit wherever you go. have fun!</p>
<p>Haha! Point taken, NJres.</p>
<p>Fact is, every one of these colleges is somebody’s dream school. And probably someone else’s nightmare. Tricky business this, buying a college education over the Internet.</p>
<p>Reminds me of the time my husband picked out a house I didn’t see until after closing. (Moral of the story: Never send a man to buy a house.)</p>