<p>Thanks. Anxiously awating the long version of Kenyon. We will see what my D thinks. She liked Grinnell a lot. But she also thinks her mom is a big dork for going on this website and interfacing with everyone!</p>
<p>After reading through the funny stories thread, I realized that many of the comments about weather during the visits and the student guides are correct. At Vandy, I thought the guide was somewhat apathetic and arrogant. It was no surprise that I left with a similar impression for the whole school. Its difficult to prevent yourself from drawing broad conclusions from narrow information. I certainly agree that the schools should be screening the guides very carefully. At Kenyon and Denison there were comment and review cards for the tour guides when you finished. At Kenyon and Earlham, all of the student guides and reps provided you with their cards. We were lucky during our visits. With the possible exception of Vandy (and he really wasnt all that bad), we had excellent guides and student representatives for our visits. We were also blessed with beautiful, clear weather on spring days. This helped put everyone in a good mood, and made all the schools look good.</p>
<p>Mizsic and Carolyn,
As promised and I hope it meets expectations.</p>
<p>Kenyon
The majority of the Kenyon campus is on top of a hill in rural Ohio. There is a small river flowing through the valley below. The picturesque Kenyon campus is intertwined with the village of Gambier. Yes, I think Gambier qualifies as a village. I dont use the term lightly, especially when applied to an American population center. Gambier appeared to be almost entirely residential, with some small shops, the bookstore, restaurants, the Kenyon Inn, a B & B and the college. If there was a gas station, I didnt see it, and Im confident it did not have a Walmart. A Walmart would automatically make it at least a Town, and probably a City
but I digress
</p>
<p>The Kenyon campus is built on both sides of the Middle Path. It is the original road/path/street in Kenyon and begins at Old Kenyon (the oldest and original building) and ends at another building about a mile away, which should be named New Kenyon, but it isnt. Most of the older buildings are collegiate gothic, with some that have a castle look to them. They tend toward shades of gray, and from my perspective, they were not consistently attractive on the outside (especially the castle look). However, on the inside, wow! Vaulted ceilings with hammer beam trusses, wooden ceilings, leaded windows, sometimes with stained glass, wooden floors, and maybe a fireplace like they have in the eating hall. The more modern buildings did not look the same on the outside or the inside, but they were also attractive. We visited the study room in Ascension hall. Its on the top floor and you walk into a large room with a vaulted ceiling, stained glass windows, comfortable furniture, and I think there was a fireplace. Our guide commented said there were strict quiet rules for students in and near the study rooms on campus. He said the Ascension hall study room was usually a little too quiet, and a little too warm so he tended to just fall asleep when he went there. Sure enough, there was a student sleeping on a couch as we walked (quietly) through. </p>
<p>Back to the middle path. It is unpaved by tradition and will never be paved. Hardpacked pea gravel is the surface. Across the street from the original campus, Gambier built parallel streets on either side of the path so it would be preserved. All of the other streets, sidewalks, etc. are paved or brick or concrete. The middle path represents tradition, history, and ritual to Kenyon, and that was my lasting impression of the place. In the library, the pictures and histories of each of the presidents are displayed prominently, ending with the current president who is their first female president. There are displays of old Kenyon artifacts, again prominently displayed as you enter the library. The student guides described the rituals when they entered as freshman. They arrived a few days early for orientation. They said they all went into the library, where individuals in black suits and wearing white gloves displayed the matriculation books, dating from the beginning of the college. They added their names to the long lists, and then would be shown the names of famous alumni who had also matriculated at Kenyon. One of them said it was rather intimidating. When the other students arrived, the entire freshman class is required to stand on the steps of one of the historic buildings and sing the Alma Mater and two or three other Kenyon songs (they are provided with the lyrics and music). As they sing, all of the other students and faculty watch them and jeer, shout, and try to distract them from completing the songs. When they finally finish, they are welcomed into the Kenyon community and everyone sings the Alma Mater together. Our guides didnt know about the ritual when they were freshman and were concerned that it might be an initiation secret, but they told us anyway. It think its described in the Fiske guide so they probably wont get expelled. </p>
<p>I definitely think Kenyon emphasizes their rituals, history, and academic traditions. Our guides were almost reverential when talking about the matriculation books. You dont get reverence from too many college sophomores. If the Middle Path becomes the Middle Mud during long wet winters, too bad, you can wear boots. </p>
<p>Most of the students are not from OH. Our guides were from CT and MA. The CT guide wore a beard, Bosox cap, and jeans. The MA guide was in college preppie clothes. There were friends, but had never conducted a tour together. They were the only students to volunteer information about their political orientations. CT was the liberal and MA was the conservative (I guess he had to leave the state). They said they often debated and argued with their fellow students about their perspectives, but that everyone remained friends. MA said he estimated there were 35% conservative to 65% liberal students there. CT agreed with the percentages. These guys did a good job presenting their college. They were respectful toward the traditions, but funny and irreverent at times. For example, when describing Old Kenyon, our MA guide said, This is Old Kenyon, the oldest building on campus. And like any historic building of consequence, it has burned down in the past. He went on to explain that it burned in 1949 while Paul Newman was a student there. Mr. Newman apparently saved three people from the fire, or at least thats the legend. Mr. Newman remains involved with the college. Hes on the board and donated a theatre building. Our guides said that two seats are always left open for Mr. Newman and Joanne Woodward if they want to attend a performance. I asked if they ever showed up unannounced, but he didnt think it had ever happened. I dont think I was supposed to ask that. </p>
<p>Speaking of famous alumni, Rutherford B. Hayes also graduated from Kenyon. My S (who is taking AP U.S. History) commented privately that hes not one to brag about too much. Kenyons current president is not an alumni, but came to Kenyon from Princeton, where she was a dean or vice-president or something. Our guide commented, We think she took a step up! Kenyon is almost finished with a huge athletic center at the bottom of the hill. They said it is the largest in Division III. All under roof, they have a 1/8 mile track, tennis courts, Olympic size swimming pool, basketball courts and arena. In the basement they have squash courts, racquetball, etc. .My S told me that Kenyon has an amazing record in Div III swimming. Theyve won the national championship for 24 or 25 years consecutively. We visited a freshman dorm that was fairly new, with large rooms. I noticed that the guides didnt use keys or cards to get in the buildings. Unfortunately, I forgot to ask about security issues. I also know that a freshman recently died at Kenyon, apparently due to alcohol abuse. I meant to ask about that, but we ran out of time. Also, the interviewer for my S was a very nice senior student, so I didnt really want to put her on the spot. I know, I wimped out!</p>
<p>We were only there a half-day because I had scheduled Denison for the afternoon (only 30 minutes away). S did not want to leave!!! S really enjoyed the class he attended. He thought the professor was great. Both the staff and students raved about this professor, so S may have been lucky, but I hope the entire faculty is that good (but I doubt it). The class was taught in one of the cottages that were originally faculty housing. S said it had been altered minimally from the time it was a residence. You entered one door and the other door was a screen door leading to the porch. When he walked in the class, the students greeted him and were welcoming. He said two students were practicing Japanese with flash cards while they waited for class to begin. One of the students was wearing our favorite T-shirt from the visits: Kenyon is NOT next to Uganda. One of our guides said he would not be doing well at Kenyon if the faculty were not supportive and helpful. They said faculty member would work with any student requesting help, including coming back to campus in the evening if the student cant make it to their office during regular hours. My S really liked Kenyon. He said he thought Kenyon was what he imagined a college should look like and feel like. It moved past Centre to his number one choice and remained there. </p>
<p>The bookstore is beside the middle path, but apparently is privately owned. We were told that Rolling Stone magazine rated it the number 1 college bookstore. We visited and I saw it as a combination of college bookstore, used bookstore, and old fashioned general store. I liked it and it supported my classification of Gambier as a village (I continue to build my case). Finally, Ill mention a comment from a parent on our tour. He is from NJ and he said if we liked the look and feel of Gambier and Kenyon, then we should visit some colleges in New England. He said Kenyon resembled many of them there. Since we havent visited New England colleges, Ill have to rely on some of you to verify or refute his comment.</p>
<p>I forgot to add information about the Kenyon Review, which is one of the most prestigious literary magazines in the country. It is published at Kenyon, and about 20 students get internships there each year. These are highly coveted, and one superior student gets to serve on the editorial board. The Kenyon Review is almost financially independent from Kenyon College because they have their own endowment. Last year, or this year is the final year Kenyon College will contribute toward the Review.</p>
<p>“He said Kenyon resembled many of them there. Since we havent visited New England colleges, Ill have to rely on some of you to verify or refute his comment.”
Kenyon was a top choice of my son’s and yes, it does resemble Williams and Hamilton and many other NE colleges that have village settings, both physically and socially.</p>
<p>doddsdad, I don’t have a child at home, but I’m still really enjoying your comments. Well done! </p>
<p>We live overseas too and understand the special logistical challenges of applying from afar. Going back for one more look can be expensive at best, impossible at worst so you are correct to be thorough and thoughtful.</p>
<p>wonderful reports!!</p>
<p>Thank you for your description of Kenyon! I happen to know your CT tour guide!</p>
<p>Don’t hesitate to ask me any questions about Kenyon if they arise!</p>
<p>thnks a loads Doddsdad!!! Your posts are just WOW!!</p>
<p>Great! I have Kenyon on the list of schools for my son in a few years. It sounds like it would fit him to a tee as a “pretty campus” is high on his list of requirements.</p>
<p>DoddsDad - am storing all this qualitative data away for future use for S. Thank you. Vivid writing helps my very old brain remember. </p>
<p>mizsic “But she also thinks her mom is a big dork for going on this website and interfacing with everyone!” Yeah, they all do. But they don’t mind benefiting from the good information and from the therapy we get…</p>
<p>Carolyn,
I hope it was implied in my descriptions, but Kenyon definitely has a “pretty campus.” I agreed with my son about it looking like a college is “supposed to look.” When you combine the hill, the woods, the village, the buildings, middle path…its an archetypal campus.</p>
<p>That is exactly what my son is thinks he wants at this point. Of course, as I’ve learned with my daughter, much can change between freshman and senior years.</p>
<p>Jamimom,
This response is a bit slow, and I may have said this before, but my DW is a Hanau graduate. You’re right, Frankfurt is closed and Giessen may have a year or two left. We don’t know for sure about the rest of the bases, but it looks like the army will be reducing forces by two thirds. These are unsettled times for us, especially with our oldest going to college in 2006.</p>
<p>doddsdad, are you out of gas? Where is the Denison report?</p>
<p>dstark - ROFLOL.</p>
<p>Actually, yes, but I’m working on it. I hope to get it done tonight. Now I know how J. K. Rowling feels…</p>
<p>Now I know how J. K. Rowling feels…</p>
<p>Okay, we are about to get doddsdad’s report on Hogwarts Academy. Drumroll, everyone!</p>
<p>And, I’m looking forward to the Earlham and Hanover reports. Although, based on your son’s reactions to Oberlin, Notre Dame and Kenyon, I can pretty much predict what he thought of Earlham. :)</p>
<p>Marite,
No reports on Hogwarts, although I did see a couple of t-shirts on the trip. I can’t remember which campus…seems like it should have been Oberlin right?</p>
<p>Carolyn,
Don’t be too confident about your prediction on Earlham. S was quite comfortable there and he was impressed with the professor and students in the class he attended. </p>
<p>Dstark!!!
Here’s the next installment. May I sleep now? It’s almost 2300 over here…</p>
<p>Denison
We spent the afternoon at Denison after spending the morning at Kenyon. Visiting in the afternoon for a half-day was not sufficient to get a clear impression of Denison. My S was not able to attend a class, although we had an excellent individual tour, and an interview with the only AC who had been overseas to Ss high school in the past </p>
<p>Denisons main campus is on a hill. From the hill, you have a nice view, but from the valley Denisons campus dominates the hillside. You can see the church/assembly hall steeple for miles. We didnt witness it, but my understanding is that the view of the steeple is even more dramatic at night when it is illuminated. Granville is a very nice town in the valley. I know it has gas stations, and maybe a chain store or two, so even though they called it a village, it was a lower-case t town. Thats not too shabby a designation. The sign on the city limits says it was established as a planned community by New Englanders. (Thats probably why they want to call it a village!) The original and main campus is on the hill, with the lower campus down one side for the fine arts buildings, and the athletic complexes at the bottom of the hill on the other side. I thought it was a cleverly designed plan to keep the athletes and dancers in shape, since the academic buildings are clustered near the center of the main campus on top of the hill. On either side of the academic quad, are the dorms, so students move to the middle in the mornings. </p>
<p>The campus is very attractive, with many trees and buildings designed to fit the setting and hillside. Their designs appear to be eclectic, but they complement each other. There are two new academic buildings built simultaneously with an underground parking garage between them and a large commons area above on top of the garage. I dont think they had much flat space on top of the hill, so they created it and now have a very nice gathering area for outdoor events. The student center was nice, with a movie theatre on the top floor, and a bar with alcohol below that. It was the only bar we saw on a campus and they are VERY careful not to serve underage students. When I saw their athletic complex at the bottom of the hill, I understood Kenyons ambitious new facility. They had to outdo Denison. Kenyon said they have the biggest building, but it may only be 5 square feet bigger than Denisons building. Denison’s buiilding is huge. </p>
<p>According to some reading Ive done, Denisons social life in the past was largely controlled by the Greek system, and many people considered it a party school. In 1995, the admin stopped allowing the frats and sororities to live in the Denison owned Greek houses. According to an article I read in a school magazine, this caused considerable anguish and withdrawal of some support from alumni. The article said that the admin said they did not intend to destroy the Greek system, but rather they were attempting to save it. I think the idea was that they had lost their primary focus as students, and were more focused on being Greek. Since that time, Greek membership has dropped from 60% plus, to the current 36% for both sororities and frats. In the same time period, the other clubs and organizations on campus have grown from 30-40, to 140 plus at this time. And the admin emphasizes that these are student initiated organizations, clubs, and activities. There is still a strong Greek presence on campus, but apparently joining, or not joining is not as big an issue as in the past. And students have a large number of choices in their activities. It seemed to me that the Denison admin accomplished their goal. The frats/soros are still able to use the meeting rooms in their previous halls for meetings and functions, but the rest of the halls are treated as dorm space. </p>
<p>Students appeared to look a lot like those at Kenyon, maybe a little more prep, and maybe a little more jock, but that could have been the difference between the morning and afternoon. The student taking us on our tour did a good job. He said hed considered joining a frat a couple of times, but ultimately decided it was not for him. He said he had a choice between Kenyon and Denison, and he implied that Denison had made a better financial offer. He doesnt have any regrets and is happy to be attending Denison. Hes a junior and said hed be working with a professor on a research project this summer. Another student working in admissions made a point of talking to us because she found out we came in from an AFB in Germany. Her father is still in the USAF. Shes graduating this year and has been accepted to two graduate schools: George Washington U, and the London School of Economics. Nice dilemma. </p>
<p>I may be putting too much weight on the stronger Greek presence at Denison, but it seemed more conservative than Kenyon. Kenyon and Centre emphasized tradition and history. Denison seems more focused on the present and your future with a Denison degree. The people at Denison are proud of their history, but they dont emphasize it too much. They are also proud of their alumni, which include Michael Eisner, Jennifer Garner, and some other famous and rich people. Sometimes they come back and tell the students how they can become rich and famous too! </p>
<p>When I asked the AC what was different about Denison, she noted that they are larger than many of the LACs, about 2100 students. She also emphasized their undergrad research opportunities. These can include $3000 stipends for summer projects and the possibility of being published. Other schools also offer this possibility, but Denison seems to emphasize it. While Im thinking about it, the AC said Denison University is a misnomer. It hasnt had a masters program for some time and is strictly an undergraduate institution. </p>
<p>It was funny, but I think my S was prepared to dislike Denison because it is a rival of Kenyon. He already felt some loyalty for KC! However, he seemed to be inspired by some pretty Denison coeds in the admissions office, and he overcame his aversion. This phenomenon is known as 16-year-old male situational ethics. Denison bumped ND from third on his list. The AC said he would be a good candidate for the honors program and for merit aid. I definitely liked that idea. A quick word about the honors program: The AC told my S that the program wasnt designed to give students tremendous amounts of additional work, but rather to explore the subjects taken by other students in greater depth. Im not quite sure how that can be accomplished without doing more work, but he seemed reassured. Maintaining a 3.4 is necessary, but apparently you have some flexibility to raise your grades if you slip below the cutoff one semester. </p>
<p>I definitely wondered what our reactions would have been that day if wed visited Kenyon and Denison in reverse order. I think the schools have different feels and personalities, but they are both very strong schools. If wed been there in the morning, maybe Denison would have ended up the favorite. We were also starting to feel the fatigue after 7 days of traveling and six colleges. However, Earlham was our next stop and we had miles to go before we slept .(That was my weak attempt at a cliffhanger ending to this installment of our Grand Am Boogie serial.)</p>
<p>doddsdad, great post. Nobody is going to have to visit these schools after reading your posts. After you get some sleep, I am curious. Some people think Denison has one of the nicest campuses in the country. Was it the nicest on your tour?</p>