One problem I have with cram schools and similar approaches is that they take away from activities that build (for want of a better term) civic virtues. Things like Scouting, clubs, sports, and other activities. I think these things are important for building a healthy nation.
Let me just add, before somebody else does, that academic excellence and hard work are virtues. But they are not the kind of civic virtues that I am talking about–things like cooperation, collaboration, appreciation of diverse points of view, concern for others and for the environment, helpfulness, etc.
UCB, I do not disagree … in theory as it is what I knew growing up in a world that did not feature test prep centers. Well, they might have existed in the suburbs to the North where more clients --or victims-- resided, but I was oblivious to them. Yet, that world changed completely in the same city by the time my younger cousins started their education in a slightly different environment. I was blessed with circumstances that fostered the love of learning as well as a healthy balance of athletic and community activities. I have no doubt that there are plenty of children today who would be floored by reading about hagwons and their counterparts.
However, the existence of the pressures that hit the younger generations in many cities is real and … worrisome. Again, I think that spending time listening to the concerns of the 25 to 40 years with kids in school should be an eye-opener. And, fwiw, I could use most of the article and related stories to “document” my argument that the obsession to “learn” more and accumulate “data” faster and bigger volumes is not a figment of my imagination.
As Hunt wrote, we end up giving up on many things, and the question remains if the price to pay can be justified by the elusive objective to “get into” a prestigious school. In so many words, is such a journey worth the effort and is what I call keeping up with the obsessed truly necessary through … peer pressure at the parents’ level?
No one is forcing anyone to give in to peer pressure. Heck, no one is forcing anyone to try to kill themselves to get in to any school.
The US (thankfully) remains a country with a socioeconomic system where there are many paths to success (if you are born to middle class family or above).
^ Nobody is forced to read articles like the OP or pay attention to the research that suggests:
How often do you think this type of conclusion will be repeated in the future and become the basis for more suggestions in the same genre?
Again, is it really the path “we” should follow in a clear sign of abdication and recognition that the current “system” does not work as intended? Or should we accept that the system is a failed one that needs to be reinvented in such a way that “complementary” is hardly needed.
Should we not look for cures to gangrene instead of relying on bandaids placed on a wooden leg?
Is this your theory? You haven’t seen Asian Americans participate in scouting, clubs, sports? Are you living in an area devoid of Asian Americans? Or do you have scientific proofs that “cram schools” exclude other activities in the US? And don’t cite newspapers article that point out extreme cases to support their agenda.
As pointed out, other students of other ethnicities also go for tutoring after school or religious studies. No doubt attending Kumon for an hour or two may take away some time, but there are many hours in the day that are free for other endeavors. Some only attend a couple of years and on weekends. I see kids hanging out in the mall, in the streets, coffee shops after school for hours. They are also eating up free time. It is far too easy to point out a group of Asian Americans because of their high visibility.
At least they are not joining gangs, having teenage pregnancies and breaking the law. That, in itself, they are contributing to civic virtues.
If you read newspapers in the Bay Area, there are many articles of Asian Americans making Eagle Scouts. They have been Olympian gymnasts, ping-ping players, famous fashion designers,artists,authors, movie directors etc etc. My son’s baseball team won a CCS championship in baseball (those who live in the Bay Area know of its difficulty, 120 high schools competing) and there were 4 Asian Americans in the starting lineup.
There are many posters here whose kids have married Asian Americans or have Asian Americans significant others. I doubt any of them fit your stereotypes. Look at Priscilla Chan, daughter of working class immigrant parents, raised by grandmother and did extremely well academically. Does she lack civic virtues? Does she look depressed?
My kids have never attended test prep centers nor do I intend to send them (mostly because I am too lazy to drive), but I will never fault parents who find them to be helpful. I personally see no benefit in attending those centers, but maybe other parents are under the (false) assumption that test scores matter most, or maybe they believe that Asians are at a disadvantage, so they are attempting to give their kid every advantage possible. Plus, I thought the general advice on CC is that it is ill-advised to sit for SATs without some prep. Is it wrong to go to a prep center if you don’t have the discipline to do it yourself? Anyway, more power to 'em if parents are able to get their kids to the centers and even more power to 'em if they are able to get the kids to do the work and to get the desired scores. I’m also assuming that even if the initial intention for attending the centers is to get higher scores, a natural by product of all that studying is more learning. And that is a good thing.
All my kids have done scouting, but I would never presume that activities in those sanctioned organizations are any more virtuous than what others may engage in. Many of my kids’ Asian friends are heavily involved in church. They’re weekends are spent doing church activities which I assume involve a lot of community service. And outsiders may not think it virtuous, but there is a lot of giving, cooperation and volunteering within the Asian communities. Plus, if we are doing out jobs as parents, we are raising our kids to be kind and compassionate. So maybe our overbooked kids don’t have time to engage in such civic activities as high schoolers, but it doesn’t preclude them from doing it later.
Well, there is some basic high value prep like test familiarization, determining guessing tactics, and the like that take little time and effort and do not require a test-prep course.
Of course, it is true that many of the parents and students here (not necessarily Asian ones) seem to have taken up the hypercompetitive tiger mentality, though perhaps not to the extreme of Amy Chua. E.g. common mantras around here are that one should take the AP course before taking the SAT subject test, or that not taking calculus in high school makes the student “behind”.
Decades ago, when I was in high school, there were test prep companies offering classes (think Kaplan, Princeton Review, etc.). So the market for such is not just a recent thing.
My own SAT preparation considered just of reading the CB SAT booklet (that included the registration form) with a few practice questions of each type. Later, I saw a Princeton Review test prep book, indicating that Princeton Review was big on “gaming” the test. But most of the things mentioned were things that I was able to figure out on my own (and which any good student should have been able to figure out on his/her own – and can be taught in a short time to a student who does not figure them out on his/her own). So I am skeptical about the value of high volume test preparation classes that likely means a lot of work (doing thousands of old SAT questions or memorizing thousands of supposed SAT words) for a few points.
Is she the wife of Facebook’s founder? (I must have lived under the rock if I do not know this :))
If she is, I read somewhere that this couple are relatively very active in charity work at such a young age. It is said in that article that they are into this effort originally because of her passion in this. I thinks she becomes a pediatrician after graduated from H (where she met her husband) and UCSF. (Whoever specializes in pediatrics is likely not into medicine for its financial reward. Hmm…it is because young parents tend to not have much money??)
It sounds like someone who often claims the benefits of liberal arts education seems to lack critical thinking skill despite graduated from such esteemed school like Yale. Imposter maybe?
It seems Priscilla Chan indeed grew up in a working class environment: (Another link said her father came to US as a refugee from Vietnam.)
– I read the following from Business Insider, I think.
“Chan grew up in what she has described as a disadvantaged family in Quincy, Massachusetts. Her Chinese-Vietnamese immigrant parents worked eighteen hours a day, and her grandparents took care of her. Chan was the first in her immediate family to go to college, and credited public-school teachers with encouraging her to reach for Harvard. While there, she volunteered five days a week at two housing projects in Dorchester, helping children with academic and social challenges. She had since become a pediatrician, caring for underserved children.”
In the past year, this couple donated $75 millions to a SF public hospital where she was trained not a long time ago. This hospital had such a “luck” to train a resident like her.
"But they are not the kind of civic virtues that I am talking about–things like cooperation, collaboration, appreciation of diverse points of view, concern for others and for the environment, helpfulness, etc.
Are you making a blanket statement that all Asian Americans don’t posses such things?"
Hunt was making no such statement. He indicated what he doesn’t like about cram schools, don’t put words in his mouth
"Chan grew up in what she has described as a disadvantaged family in Quincy, Massachusetts. Her Chinese-Vietnamese immigrant parents worked eighteen hours a day, and her grandparents took care of her. Chan was the first in her immediate family to go to college, and credited public-school teachers with encouraging her to reach for Harvard. "
Amazing that she got in - I hear that Harvard is prejudiced against Asians. (/sarcasm)
Note first that I didn’t say anything about Asians in my comment. Second, I know plenty of Asian American families, including some with kids who did all the kinds of activities that I refer to–and some that didn’t. Actually, those who were discouraged from doing other activities by their parents were more likely (in my experience) to be required to go home and study and practice musical instruments, as opposed to attend cram schools. So these kids simply weren’t allowed to do a broad range of activities that, in my humble opinion, would have made them better citizens, without significantly (again, in my opinion) harming their standing as good students. I felt really sorry for them. I’ll be honest and say that I never observed this particular issue in non-Asian families, although there are phenomena in other families that also (in my opinion) cause some isolation from the mainstream, like strict restrictions on dating and socializing, overcommitment to sports, and other things.
And I don’t think it’s particularly ignorant to point out that an activity that occupies several hours a day–often right after school–limits a kid’s ability to be involved in other activities.
Here’s what I don’t get: xiggi criticizes some practices (as do I), and people seem to have two responses:
Lots of people other than Asians pursue those practices; and
Criticizing those practices is anti-Asian.
I think those are inconsistent. I note that the same thing happens whenever the subject of SAT cheating comes up.
MODERATOR’S NOTE:
Once again, name-calling and belligerent generalizations have no place here. The next instance will result in closure of this thread.
I think we should continue this entertaining thread (created by the site administration) until it is locked again.
American schools are very bad at teaching math and even English. It is understandable that immigrant parents from the countries with better schools turn to academic enrichment to compensate. Not all afterschool programs are geared towards teaching to the test.
My former schoolmate who is now professor at Berkley got so desperate that he translated our Geometry textbook published in the 50ties into English. In his blog he lamented how bad American math textbooks are and compared pages from CA textbook with the similar pages from Singapore Math to show that what is being taught here is not math.
Now if you believe that some prep is necessary before taking SAT then why not send your child to a hagwon where they know how to prep as opposed to some American chain that hires random people and gears towards average students. For example my son went to hagwon for 6 months and told me that thanks to their classes he finally understood English grammar (even though he was attending an IB program in one of the best public magnet high schools in the country).
So instead of bashing Asians maybe we should look closer at what they are doing well and take advantage when possible.